After LAbours latest surrender to Federal Europe please have your say. UK only on this thread for voting. (I will create an EU - not UK thread also)
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After LAbours latest surrender to Federal Europe please have your say. UK only on this thread for voting. (I will create an EU - not UK thread also)
I as you all expect have voted YES. Its time for us to leave and go it alone.
I'm British, but have been living in Spain for about 10 years, I've seen the benefits that Spain has reaped from being a part of it, but I really can't think of what the UK actually gains, other than having in a small say in the direction the EU takes
As a European I do hope Britain leaves. Britain is not helping the EU, only causing problems. And it is costly for the rest of the EU languages. So please leave Britain, thank you
We're not helping the EU? Odd, last time I checked, we were actually paying several billion Euros into it every year. Edit: For clarity. that's the net, not total contributionQuote:
Originally Posted by Sjakihata
I feel European as well as British, and hope that we stay in the EU. Edit: However, it does need to be reformed to be simpler and more modern.
There lies the problem. When you're only reasoning in terms of financial contribution, the rest of the EU is not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcellus
Hah, so the French don't care about money? Why is it that you refuse to even negotiate over the CAP then? I'm sorry, but that's rubbish.
While I do believe the EU is workable, and a desirable thing, there does need to be a serious restructuring of the payment system. Refusing to sit there and get completely shafted isn't selfish, it's just prudent.
As explained numerous times, it's not all the French who are supporting the current form of the CAP, it's Chirac and his most loyal electoral base: the farmers. I, for one, certainly find it atrociously out of date and unfair in its distribution.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big King Sanctaphrax
And no, I don't care about the UK's money. I'd much prefer it to leave and pay more.
So what was this latest budget row about if it wasn't about money?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ldvs
%^*&^&^$&$^$&!!!!!! I voted too fast. Subtract one vote form the "Yes" option:san_embarassed:
But yes, i do think that the U.K should leave the E.U. Whats the point of joining a group that mostly just takes your money and gives it to the other members?
The point is helping other, less well off European nations, which indirectly can help our economies (larger trading partners). In the same way that richer people in Britain (and almost everywhere) give money to the poor via higher taxes, richer EU nations give money to the poorer ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by mongoose
Yes, i believe we should leave the EU. Sure, it makes it a bit easier to trade with other EU nations, but they impose a whole load of crappy rules on us that no one likes.
I agree entirely :bow:Quote:
Originally Posted by Big King Sanctaphrax
Yeah, rubbish rules like human rights. How dare they!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeus Caesar
Excellent answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcellus
Remember the Marshall plan? America provided tons of money for the ruined Western Europe to rebuild, and they gained valuable allies and trade partners as a result.
And no, it wasn't that popular to the American public when Truman proposed it. In fact, it was rather hated.
I cannot vote because I'm not European, (or British :san_grin: ), but I believe Great Britain should stay in the EU. The European Union is more than just an economic partnership; Europe united so it could have a say in the world. Unfortunately, politicians will always be politicians, thus the influence the EU has is unused, and, from what I gather, the British voters would have to trust their French contemporaries to vote for someone competent (somehow...) in order to remove the apparently hated CAP program, which supports one of Chirac's power base.
But going alone is foolish; British say in how the world is going would be diminished further. Do you people really believe that going out of the EU (which you are among the masters, albeit one of the many, and thus little power) would "free" your country's direction, when Bush&cro. is still demanding everyone in the world, especially your prime minister, his little puppy, to choose sides? Do you want to be America's lapdog full-time now?
One thing that everyone except the politicians seem to agree is that the EU needs reform to achieve its potential; the current beaurecracy is a mess.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcellus
It´s about the fact that Great Britain pays less money than other members relative to their economy. This is known as the "British rebate". Other members find that a bit unfair, but GB doesn´t understand why.
Oh, so it was about money all along.Quote:
Originally Posted by A.Saturnus
I agree, the rebate is unfair, as is the CAP. The EU budget needs a wholescale review.Quote:
Originally Posted by A.Saturnus
You could say it was about fairness.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcellus
I agree.Quote:
I agree, the rebate is unfair, as is the CAP. The EU budget needs a wholescale review.
We could kick out the French instead. Or start a No-France club all of our own. I think everyone would be happier then.
Clearly we should stay in the EU and it is only loons who believe we could survive or prosper like we do now without it - I shall be thanking the EU when I get my ERASMUS grant for studying abroad at another uni in the EU....
We aren't leaving and we never will, not because we can't but because it makes no sense, deal with it you nationalist whingers.
That's certainly why the first Brittish proposals were greeted with an uproar and many were shocked by such a pro-Brittish stance. Those who are blatantly always dragging their feet are to be found on the other side of the Channel I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by BDC
As explained by Saturnus it was about fairness. It was also about political ambition for the EU. Something the UK lacks, beyond a doubt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcellus
Wise words AntiochusIII.
EU languages mi culo, anyone miss the UK ONLY bit?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sjakihata
Too late now, but he probably should've made the poll votes public- so you could see who wasnt following directions. I'm not from the UK, so I didnt vote- but if I were, I'd say leave.Quote:
Originally Posted by Prodigal
As an American, I don't really care too much about it- so long as they don't try to shove any of that 'savings tax directive' crap down our throats....
Nah, it was about money. The EU needs a lot of it, and this budget row was about who pays - no-one really wants to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ldvs
Hardly. The UK wants to transform the EU economy to become more competitive and more modern, a vision of the EU that isn't lacking in political ambition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ldvs
I think that only applies to the polls.Quote:
EU languages mi culo, anyone miss the UK ONLY bit?
It is simply not possible for Britain to leave the EU.
Try to think about it for a minute.
Why should UK leave ? Silly....
Shouldn't the question be how we (UK) ended up inside a 'EU' in the first place?
What on Earth happened to the EEC?
The EU is so corrupt and shambolic it's no real surprise that the UK veiws it cautiously.....and after France and Holland gave the constitution the big heave-ho who can blame us? I'm amazed at the number of posters here who have swallowed the political elites propaganda hook line and sinker.
BTW if the UK did leave the EU it would signal the death financially of this beast, after all we now prop up most of it after having our money filtched from our pockets, yet again. Way to go Tony Blair, you have carved your place in history....a quisling to Brussels. Nice one.
Something I think we can all agree with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcellus
Hardly. Dragging their feet is certainly not limited to the UK, particularly in the light of France and Holland openly rejecting the proposed EU constitution; if anything, the biggest problem with the EU is that everyone says they want the EU and all it stands for but everyone baulks at actually making a significant contribution. Britain is just as bad in this regard as the rest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ldvs
Need I remind you, again, how much the EU budget represents for each country's GDP? Blair acknowledged it himself. The EU budget is symbolic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcellus
You have a strange conception of what political ambition means. In my opinion, you're describing economic ambition, which I will not deny the UK has aplenty, something we need desperately over here.Quote:
Hardly. The UK wants to transform the EU economy to become more competitive and more modern, a vision of the EU that isn't lacking in political ambition.
To clarify the situation, by political ambition I meant a political union. A set of institutions that would take over our respective institutions. An ambition to create a federal state like Germany or the USA, not just a mere economic union.
But why should we have a political union? What would be the benefit? We hardly get anything out of the beast as it is? Just another way for '2nd world' Europe to draw more money from advanced nations. Why don't they try standing on their own two feet ?
Here's an idea. Get the EU to sign off it's accounts. Then make the EU publish said accounts. Show where ALL the money is going. Force the finances to be transparent. Then we may see some changes in attitude. After all remember it is folks like myself who fund this edifice, governments and more importantly the EU doesn't have any money of it's own, it only has money it has taken from peoples pockets.