how come there have been zero pictures of any elephants??????????????????????????????????????????????????:san_huh: ????????????????????????????????:san_huh: ???????????????????????????????
a bit peculiar if you ask me
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how come there have been zero pictures of any elephants??????????????????????????????????????????????????:san_huh: ????????????????????????????????:san_huh: ???????????????????????????????
a bit peculiar if you ask me
Because elephants were not very high on our priority list of things to work on, since they look decent enough.
But I hope that at least EB will feature Indian elephants for Seleucids and African ones for Carthage and Ptolemies ?Quote:
Originally Posted by khelvan
We are indeed using the Indian Elephant model/skin that CA left us, and have plans for another Indian Elephant unit.
Didn't they only ride Indian elephants because African Elephants are too volatile? I swear I read that somewhere.
Well, people like the Seleucids rode Indian ones because they were the nearest to hand. Naturally the Carthaginians rode African ones because they were the nearest to hand for them. But I'm not sure about elephants' personalities. African ones might be more volatile.
theres 2 african elephants, the big ones are too mean to ride and train, so they use the small ones
the indian ones are more docile and better to train, so they are best
you notice in films they are always indian elephants
There are 2 types of African elephants: the savannah elephant and the smaller forest elephant. Only the forest elephant and the Indian (or Asian) elephant were used for warfare. Savannah elephants, though bigger then the other two, were deemed unsuitable for warfare because they were much harder to control.
Realisticly, the Carthaginians and Ptolemies would have acces to forest elephant units- basicly the lowest elephant unit in RTW, possibly with some variations i.e. archers on top.
The Seleucids and the eastern kingdoms would have acces to Indian types.
The savannah was actually used from time to time, it was just rare because they were such a pain to train and were even more unpredicitable than the other types in battles.
Will there be any representation of the (now extinct) Syrian elephant population?
I think that the Syrian elephants were just imported Indian elephants who were bred for the military of the Seleucids, I don't think they were a distinct subspecie, the Seleucids found more easy to have a large supply of elephants in the center of their kingdom rather than having to make them come from India in time of war.Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfTheIsles
We do have plans to show the importation of elephants. For now that is implemented in a very basic manner, but it may be fleshed out later, post-OB.
Ah right, thanks for the clarification. I had only heard scant references to them, eg Hannibal's elephant.Quote:
I think that the Syrian elephants were just imported Indian elephants who were bred for the military of the Seleucids, I don't think they were a distinct subspecie, the Seleucids found more easy to have a large supply of elephants in the center of their kingdom rather than having to make them come from India in time of war.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfTheIsles
The Syrian elephant was the same as the Indian elephant, it actually used to live all across Asia. Their range had been vastly reduced by the time of the Seleukids though (and long before that too).
If that's true it would be cool to have an extremely expensive (to account for the long and difficult training) savannah elephant unit trainable in some regions in the heart of Africa. Maybe make it cost twice as much as the most expensive Seleucid elephant to make it more of a bonus unit so that Carthagenians and Ptolemies won't use it all the time. :san_wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by QwertyMIDX
It wasn't so much that they were a lot harder to train, they just weren't as reliable because it was impossible to train them as well. Likely you'd bring them to battle and they'd just go nuts and flatten your own army.
Then let the training time be ten years to account for the nursing of the baby elephant all the way up to trunk-flailing war machine. :san_grin:
Haha, we'll do something to make them hard to get, they're already hilariously expensive and rather rare.
Great, I take it they're going to be hireable as mercenaries then?
There are a few ways to get a hold of them.
Hehe, you EB:ers really are secretive! :san_grin:
Hopefully, the need for secrecy will be over before my smilies run out of santa-hoods.
What? Fishing? Me? Nope not me, no sirree. :san_smiley:
Did elephants do that much damage? Or did they just scare (read:disorient) formations of men?
I can't see them being all that effective against a tight cluster of soldiers. Since spears were common and elephants are big, don't you think stabbing them to death would be easy.
I for one would not kill the elephant. I would kill the rider, then steal the elephant and return him back to the wild.
It depends how the men reacted, if they didn't turn the elephant away before it reached their lines (archers and especially skirmishers were very effective) and didn't get out of the elephant's way they could cause a lot of damage.
A furious elephant -even a small one- is indeed much more powerful, dangerous and destructive than you may imagine. I've seen TV reports about Indian elephants killing their mahouts -riders- and man, they can do with a guy the same you can do with a GI-Joe doll -even with less effort.
From time to time, male elephants pass thru a period of madness, that experienced owners call the 'madt'. Some glandular organs they have after their eyes do grow and supurate a nasty substance, and due to pain and pressure, the animal gets furiously crazy. If you've not chained it before, it will leave a track of destruction. I've seen an elephant in that state in a NG documentary, and it looked like a howling locomotive. Nothing to envy the King Kong movie.
IMHO, war elephants must have been really effective disrupting heavy infantry lines. If protected with some kind of front and side armor, they could kill 15 or 20 guys in a few seconds if they were unlucky enough to be in their path of charge, and even sarissas would have been a meagre defense against their massive thrust, their heavy legs and the strength of its grasping and punching trump. They literally pass over you, beat you, crush you, stab you and throw you away like a Barbie.