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Hi, quick question:
The computer seems to be able to send out infinite troops. I'm playing the seleucids and in the first couple dozen turns I've already slain maybe 10-12K egyptian soldiers. Most of my cities have like 2k total population, there is no way I could field armies like that. Are the egyptians just that rich or do they recruit troops for free without using population?
Thanks
Oh btw I am playing on medium/medium
That is the way it goes usually.
Most strategists suggest to attack Egypt at the very beginning and take its town. Once the Nile delta is yours the fight is over. But you really have to be fast. Just katank them! If you do not have enough population to field a strong army then buy one. You should have enough money to get a ot of mercs.
Another approach is to be defensive in the beginning. Take Susa at once (2nd or 3rd turn) then concentrate on Asia Minor. Sell an alliance to Egypt (do not worry, they will betray you!). If the Egyptian come close built an all cavalry army (Antioch is an excellent production centre for that). This one is enough for an defensive strategy. You can destroy one Egypt. army, then refill your troops, then strike again ... . So you should be able to kill one army in every 2nd turn.
Once you control Asia Minor and Crete and Rhodes it is time to strike back. You can either go through Palestine or land at the Nile delta. Maybe you should do both. Block the bridges, seperate their armies and take the towns as soon as possible.
The big advantage of the defensive version is that E is getting increadible strong and tha you can fight some nice battles :san_cheesy:
The reason why Egypt can mass-produce armies unlike any other faction in the game, is that 2 of the 3 cities along the river Nile have the grain resource. Not only does having the resource boost their population growth, they are also trading grain with each other which causes even greater boost. Hence those cities are growing super-fast, so that the faction can just keep pumping out units without depleting it's population. It also helps that egypt is insanely rich (much thanks to the same grain-trade along the Nile).
It is one of the flaws fo the RTW recruiting system. You can't build units fast enough as the Egyptians to keep population down. In smaller cities you can't build armies without depleting the population. It doesn't make sense for dispersed cultures (barbarians, Numidians, Spanish etc.) while it does for ones like the Greeks, and Romans. You sort of need separate city and province approaches: cities for determining what structures and capabilities; provinces for determing what population/resource pools are available. A large developed city would not have a massive rural population, while a small barbarian city would have a large pool of people in the countryside in small villages.
Lords of the Realm II actually had a better population recruiting system. In it population would not only grow (and was tracked by age groups) but it would migrate based on happiness. Happiness and population was used when recruiting armies, and it took time to recover happiness after building a large army. In fact happiness limited how many you were allowed to recruit.
I've found that Spain also mass produces soldiers. Naked fanatics and Round Sheild cavalry. Though they are not a major threat, a general with a full flag marching to Massilla(SP) is very hostile gesture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kourutsu
That's true, in my Julii campaign I started after installing the 1.5 patch, I ended up in a bit of a pickle, with Spanish hordes sneaking up on my frontier settlements just at the very wrong moment when my finances and forces were stretched to the limits. How disappointed I was therefore, when the Spanish armies consisted of virtually all Iberian Infantry/Skirmishers and one or two units of Round shield cavalry and Naked Fanatics (and the occasional general). In 4-5 similar battles, I have killed somewhere in the region of 8500 of these weak troops for the loss of no more than 300 of my own, and many of those were just barbarian mercenaries. It's bitterly disappointing how easily they die when my Hastati and cavalry charge into their lines. It's more disappointing that the rate they recruit their troops means their settlements are stuck at the low population levels, hence it's unlikely they'll produce better troops before I finally tire of playing with these fools and slaughter the rest of them. This is the old age problem of playing on larger unit settings though (I play at Extra Large/120 unit size).
I believe the A.I. sometimes is capable of creating some stacks out of the sky, though. Despite Egypt's explosive population growth, there are still no more than six (usually, if you, a Seleucid player, rush, it will be three) cities (therefore, usually, six units) with which they can recruit within a turn. But I've faced full stacks of units in a few turns even after I dealt defeats after defeats at them. That, or the A.I. can sometimes recruit more than one unit per city per turn.
In my present campaign as the Brutii, the Egyptians have as usual broken a cease-fire and viciously attacked me in the North near Tarsus and Antioch. They foolishly left the Nile Cities with only a few units in each. I laid siege to Alexandria with a full stack of Urban Cohorts and Praetorian Cavalry expecting a battle from perdition. I took it with a few casualties. Next turn I took Memphis, and found I could get "gold" armor and have started upgrading all of my Urban Cohorts a few at a time, and have started building Urban Barracks in both of them. Presently, I have Thebes under siege, and have rioting going on in almost all Egyptian Cities. In two of them, the Egyptians were besieging revolted cities, and I attacked and Destroyed the Egyptian Armies out there. For the time being, I'd rather the Rebels have them than the Egyptians. In short, the Egyptians are about to be wiped out more by revolts than by military action, and yours truly is behind the revolts. But, the Egyptians made it much easier for me by taking massive Armies from along the Nile, and sending them North.Quote:
Originally Posted by Conqueror
After the Egyptians are destroyed, then I will go for the rebel cities.
The biggest Egyptian threat on the map is 20 units of peasants with gold armor and 2 gold chevrons which popped up when I got tired of riots in Antioch and moved out after destroying every building in there I could. What I found amusing was the mentality of these people, the first building they built after revolting was an execution square. Lunatics!
One that I was having difficulty with is Bostra. With just 400 people, they were rioting every turn, and killing almost that many soldiers every turn, and at one time, I had a full stack in there. I was having to literally ship in, and move troops across the desert to keep troops in there. It finally got better when I brought in a governor, two spies, an assassin, and two diplomats.
Merry Christmas Friends!
Strength and Honor
Celt Centurion
I had EXACTLY this problem on RTR, I killed no fewer than 10,000 Ptolemies in 5 turns destroying units that were the highest possible quality available in abundance yet I couldnt destroy these armies faster than they were being recruited.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leusugi
Everytime I withdrew my legions for retraining by the time i'd returned the Ptolemies had replaced most of their losses, in the end I gave up in disgust :san_laugh:.
I estimated that due to the enormous army the Ptolemies had and the size of their empire it'd take about 25 full scale battles during which 2000 Ptolemies would have to die in each before I had a chance to beat production totally, conquering territory and then keeping my armies active. I was campaigning with 3 field armies against 15 full stacks and that was just in Tripolitania, I had spies which had spotted a further 8 in Syria and Palestine.
Thats 10's of thousands of troops that I knew of, how on earth the AI was paying for this I will never ever know. The AI always seems to miraculously survive economically despite having its ports blockaded, when that happens to the player you can be bankrupt in no time.
I wish I could dump a thousand barrels of estrogen in the Nile and make all those bastards infertile. I mean, you can always mod thier chariots out, but they just have so many people!!!
Yeah,Quote:
Originally Posted by antisocialmunky
As soon as I took over the 3 Nile Cities, I started recruiting from them, initially Archers and Cavalry until my Urban barracks, and then Circus Maximus' were built. Then I retrained and started training up Urban Cohorts and Praetorian Cavalry.
In just a few turns, the "face" is glowing blue.
Now I am recruiting peasants just to keep the populations down, and the populations are already up to 30,000+! The "face" is red, and I expect revolts at any turn. What is bad, is that I still barely have about 10-12 units (Urban Cohorts, Praetorian Cavalry, and Archers of Course) in each city, and I am sure that when they revolt, there will be a full stack of the little yellow buggers with Gold Armor and 3 gold chevrons.
To help, I have rotated all of my Nile Units into and out of Memphis so that they all now have "Gold" Armor.
The Ferry Man will be busy again soon.
Strength and Honor.
Celt Centurion
I wonder if you can use the plagued diplomat in a boat trick to control thier population. I'm sure they'd get pissed, but atleast there wouldnt' be as many of them.
Sometimes enemies have sent plague carrying spies in on me. So I keep that in mind, and when I have an infected spy, I return the favor.Quote:
Originally Posted by antisocialmunky
A few days ago, I sent one into an Egyptian City where he was suddenly infected. Before he died, I moved him around and back and forth between Egyptian Cities. I suppose that can be one way of
"walking like an Egyptian!"
Strength and Honor
Celt Centurion
Wouldn't it be a good idea to just mod away one of the two grain resources?
Preferrably the one in the Alexandria province. I never liked the idea that the grain resources always come in pairs of two, Carthage - Syracuse, Egypt - Egypt, Chrimea - That scythia province. It makes in my opinion a too huge food surplus in said and nearby provinces. Alternatively you could mod so that each grain only gives a bonus of +0.5% or whatever instead of +1.5% which in total gives a staggering +3% food surplus. I don't know but I guess it would be enough just removing some of the grain lines in the resource text file. Can anyone confirm that?