A tactic you might like ?

Ok here is a tactic (plus sub tactic) you might like or find useful ? although I have only tried it on S:TW. Please feel free to post your thoughts or crit.

Tactic : Hammer an Anvil

Step one.

Sub tactic: Gestalt Units.

As you can see from the screeny i have hidden an arquebusier unit inside a Naginata unit by using open/close ranks. This is useful when trying to disguise your numbers.

The naginata (strong defence unit) will be acting as my anvil

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...ao/Shogun1.jpg

Step two.

As the enemy approaches the arquebusier unit breaks ranks revealing itself and attacks. This lures in my opponants towards the anvil. Also in the picture you can see, positioned to the right, a nodatchi unit (strong offensive) which will be acting as my hammer.

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...ao/Shogun2.jpg

Step three.

If you havn't guessed already the arquebusier retire and the enemy crashes into the naginata unit like stormy waves on the rocky shore. Now the hammer moves into position to strike down sealing the enemy's fate.

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...ao/Shogun3.jpg

Step four.

Death

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...ao/Shogun4.jpg

So there you have it, Obviously i have scaled it down loads but if used on a grand scale, in most situations this is a great tactic.

For Extra Destructive power : Why not use two or more hammers to pummel waves of enemy attacks, (Just remember to keep your anvil re-trooped if they break the tactic is useless)

Thanks for taking the time to read this post, why not have a go yourself ?

A fine tactic, arcade81; thanks for sharing it. Kind of a variation on 'Bait 'n Switch', where Lt Cav draws the target into ambush.

hmmm i think ill add this in my RTW tactics guide...i used this so often i didnt really thought of it as a tactic but its quite useful

Thx, am stil awaiting RTW as a delayed Chrimbo prezzie so hopefully ill get to try it out as a tactic in the newq line of total wars games, If anyone saw "Time commanders" on BBC1, they will know what an advantage knowing, even simple tactics like this would have been. ((baka's) (Historian 'beard wearing' Idiots). )

please 'KukriKhan' is there a link where i can find the 'Bait 'n Switch', tactic ? I would be most pleased to read.

'The Stranger' please post it, it is obvious, but effective.

Yours hungery for more,

Arcade

Great tactic, famously used by Alexander the Great, but commonly used by Macedonian kings before him.

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'KukriKhan' is there a link where i can find the 'Bait 'n Switch', tactic ? I would be most pleased to read.

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I'll see if I can find that dusty old relic in the library.

Please post what Arcade

if you mean the Tactics thread, you can find it stickied 4th from above in the entrance hall

its not finished but it soon will be when i get my edit button back

Why did you lose your edit button? Remind me. :wink:

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Originally Posted by Craterus

Why did you lose your edit button? Remind me. :wink:

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Now Boys play nicely. After all this is the Entrance Hall and we don't wanna scare off the new members do we?:tongueg:

Hmm..... Nice tactic, Not sure if would work in the other total war games. (Goes off to find out...)

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Originally Posted by Craterus

Why did you lose your edit button? Remind me. :wink:

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i cant reallly remember, i thought i offended an awful annoying org member, yeah that was it, though i forgot his name :tongueg:

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Originally Posted by The Stranger

Please post what Arcade

if you mean the Tactics thread, you can find it stickied 4th from above in the entrance hall

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Yeah, you said in your first post you would like to post this tactic there, i was giving you the go ahead.

Although i havn't tried it in RTW so it will be interesting if someone could test it. and post some feedback here ?

Hello acrade81!! welcome to the .org ~:wave: ~:wave: ~:cheers:

thanks for sharing that tactick. you will see it used all the time in multiplayer~:) (I heard you were going to do multiplayer - and I have you at msn now... see you soon for some games!! :bow:)

arcade...

I posted it. check it a bit down in my first post at Historical tactics

Does anyone knows how the "half moon" (that's what i call it) tactic is called and in what battle it was first used!

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...fs/Its_art.jpg
(the enemy is at the top)

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Originally Posted by Father_Ted

Does anyone knows how the "half moon" (that's what i call it) tactic is called and in what battle it was first used!

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...fs/Its_art.jpg
(the enemy is at the top)

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I am not entirely sure what you mean. From your comment I would think it's just an army-wide wedge, which is probably the oldest tactic in the book. However, if it's upside down it is the double envelopment, first demonstrated (by our knowledge) by Hannibal Barca at the battle of Cannae.

Welcome to the Org, BTW ~:wave: .

i think i use it...though it looks more like this /---\

Trying to figure out who used which kind of generl tactical scheme and when is usually pretty pointless - these sorts of things tend to develop over a long time, and it's just the first really illustrious or famous employement that shows up in them history books. Although I'll grant you it might be possible to trace the introduction and first employement of something like the Roman triplex acies system, but that's a pretty specialized one anyway...

Case in point: Ludens mentions that the "refused center" ploy was first used by Hannibal at Cannae - yet all I've read says the Athenians, by design, accident or both, actually used the same move against the Persians at Marathon. And given its nature (it may well end up getting used by accident if your center gets pushed back while the wings hold their ground and can fall on the flanks of the enemy center) it was almost certainly employed earlier too, seeing as how mass warfare is a pretty old thing...

That said, the "hammer and anvil" approach is a pretty basic trick and ought to have featured prominently in the tactical repertoire of all cultures that effectively combined infantry and cavalry. Heavy infantry of any quality, even "unarticulated" shieldwalls that cannot maneuver offensively, are by their very nature far better at holding the line and pinning an opponent in a drawn-out slugging match than any cavalry can ever hope to be; conversely cavalry, as a rule of thumb, cannot frontally attack formed, steady heavy infantry and expect any particularly illustrious results (save perhaps if it's heavy shock cavalry charging comparatively loose-order troops such as swordsmen who lack "anti-horse" weaponry such as spears). This basic equation tended to result in the heavy infantry holding the line at the center and the cavalry operating in the flanks, where their mobility was less restricted and they could hopefully be able to attack the vulnerable flanks and rear of the enemy infantry where the momentum-negating qualities of the latter weren't nearly as good. Nevermind now that lighter cavalry had a bad habit of getting badly mauled if it tried overly spirited shock action against "heavy" troops...

Alas, most of the time the opponent had his cavalry on the wings too (commanders over the millenia seem to actually have preferred to initially pit horse against horse and foot against foot in this fashion, and for pretty good reasons), so whoever gets to try and rule the flanks (or, in the absence of sufficiently solid heavy infantry as in many Medieval battles, the entire battlefield) had to first be settled between the horsemen... That's what happened at Cannae too, mind you. The heavier Carthaginian horse were able to chase their Roman colleagues from the field and pretty much run amuck behind the Roman infantry. Similarly Alexander usually had to first see off any Persian cavalry in the flanks before he could turn his Companions to help the (often rather hard pressed) phalangites in the centre.

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Originally Posted by Ludens

I am not entirely sure what you mean. From your comment I would think it's just an army-wide wedge, which is probably the oldest tactic in the book. However, if it's upside down it is the double envelopment, first demonstrated (by our knowledge) by Hannibal Barca at the battle of Cannae.

Welcome to the Org, BTW ~:wave: .

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That's probable the one i poorly discribed! I don't know what you mean with the "double envelopment". Do you have pic of it or a description?

Father Ted:2thumbsup:

i cant draw the English to ambush in Toulouse. i hate that province.. it has one single bridge and the english dont want to cross it even if they fight my forces right to the end of the bridge.... they just stop when the bridge ends...
TO LOSE

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Originally Posted by Father_Ted

I don't know what you mean with the "double envelopment". Do you have pic of it or a description?

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Single envelopment is essentially that one flank of an army wraps around the opposing flank of the enemy army. Double envelopment means that both flanks wrap around the opposing enemy flanks.

Watchman is right when he says that this certainly happened before in history, but I think Cannea is the first time where it was planned manoevre. The Romans played perfectly to Hannibal's plan by throwing their entire army at his weak centre. The centre fell back but did not rout (which is a testament to the soldiers' discipline and trust in their commander), drawing the Romans in and thus exposing the Roman flanks to Hannibal's Libyan infantry. Arround that time, Hannibal's elite cavalry had finished trampling over their Roman opponents and returned to seal of the trap (yet another example of their strong discipline, as victorious cavalry usually went on pursuing their opponents or started plundering the enemy camp). The result was the biggest slaughter of a Roman army ever. This is the classic example of a double envelopment, and of how a experienced, well-led army can defeat far greater forces.

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Originally Posted by Ludens

Single envelopment is essentially that one flank of an army wraps around the opposing flank of the enemy army. Double envelopment means that both flanks wrap around the opposing enemy flanks.

Watchman is right when he says that this certainly happened before in history, but I think Cannea is the first time where it was planned manoevre. The Romans played perfectly to Hannibal's plan by throwing their entire army at his weak centre. The centre fell back but did not rout (which is a testament to the soldiers' discipline and trust in their commander), drawing the Romans in and thus exposing the Roman flanks to Hannibal's Libyan infantry. Arround that time, Hannibal's elite cavalry had finished trampling over their Roman opponents and returned to seal of the trap (yet another example of their strong discipline, as victorious cavalry usually went on pursuing their opponents or started plundering the enemy camp). The result was the biggest slaughter of a Roman army ever. This is the classic example of a double envelopment, and of how a experienced, well-led army can defeat far greater forces.

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That is the one i tried to explain. (I guess) As the weaker center troops took all of the flak the outer center better troops could somehow surrounded the enemy while the cavalry took out the enemy's cavalry. Thanks!

Father Ted:2thumbsup:

Hi, I am really excited to find people stil playing STW and although i've bin busy since x-mas i wil be on alot more now. stil waiting for full membership and il post in the STW forums.

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Originally Posted by Drisos

Hello acrade81!! welcome to the .org ~:wave: ~:wave: ~:cheers:

thanks for sharing that tactick. you will see it used all the time in multiplayer~:) (I heard you were going to do multiplayer - and I have you at msn now... see you soon for some games!! :bow:)

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thanks looking forward to some "honourable warfare"

thanks for replies and comments everyone.

Thanks for sharing the tactic....ironically I'd just posted a plea for guidance to the best guide or guides for STW MI out there or here in the Guild......then I came upon your post - so thanks again.

I was pleased to find a STW player as well - tho I'm not really started yet as my copy is hopefully finding it's way across Australia as I speak - Thanks eBay!

Anyway - I look forward to trying your tactic :wideeyed: