Culture/Creator/Owner of all provinces at start

Can anyone help confirm these assumptions? These are the things needed to accurately depict a province/city at startup. There are three big categories of things we can affect in the cities and these seem to summarize them (I mention 272 as the start date as that is what we at EB are using, so just think of whatever year you want instead of that - but it's the start year):

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faction_culture - found in descr_regions.txt = 1. Determines what culture the buildings in descr_strat (those set up before the game's start) and strategic map icons (the ones at the bottom of your screen - the ones of your buildings already constructed) look like. Also the text associated with mouseover up until gamestart in 272 (nothing to do with the buildings afterwards) (this would best be the culture that the economic/military/cultural buildings that you would see in the city if you attacked it in the start game year).

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faction_creator - found in descr_strat.txt = 1. Determines what type of culture the ambient, non-buildable buildings at the game's start will be (until the settlement is upgraded with a governor's building I believe). These are the houses in the city in 272BC, *but only until it's upgraded*. 2. Determines (by culture) what the strat-map icon of the city (not the *icons*, but the image of the city itself on the map) will look like prior to upgrading with the next core level building. 3. This appears to be the faction to whom it will rebel if it does, but I am not 100% certain about it.

At EB we got rid of the "romans_senate" faction, and had hoped to use it at a later point, but for now we have to make these factions the ones the province would rebel to. It cannot be slave it seems, as this makes the icon for the city and the houses inside look Roman.

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"faction_owner" (this is the faction/culture that controls it, or whatever faction/culture the rebel sub_faction leader who controls it is) - found in descr_strat.txt = 1. determines new buildings and new troops that can be built from the game's start onwards (on strat map and in battle map) (these are the type rebels who will be in charge of the province and building buildings in it from 272 onwards)

You mean default culture in the first one I think ;)

You seem to have it as I understand it except I thought rebels drew upon the cuture/faction of "default culture" and not upon faction ownership. My memory may be in error.

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Originally Posted by Dol Guldur

You mean default culture in the first one I think ;)

You seem to have it as I understand it except I thought rebels drew upon the cuture/faction of "default culture" and not upon faction ownership. My memory may be in error.

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I don't mean to imply the "faction owner" will get the province if it rebels. I just mean if it is a rebel province from the start, the faction owner is whatever faction the rebel general/character who is in control of it is.

These conclusions are also from my memory.
I should do some tests to be 100% sure about them.:oops:

culture tag:
I think this is used only for the rebels. It conditions which type of units are recruited by the rebels when the region is controlled by them.

faction_creator:
controls all the buildings at the start of the campaign, I think that this includes the building cards.

owner:
it is simple. The faction that controls the regions at the start and which will build buildings and recruit troops.
In case of the owner is the slave faction, the "sub-culture" is controlled by culture tag, as said before.

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Originally Posted by Monkwarrior

faction_creator:
controls all the buildings at the start of the campaign, I think that this includes the building cards.

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Faction creator doesn't affect your buildings like barracks, core buildings, etc. - what they look like (and descriptions) come from faction culture (either faction or rebel sub-faction). Faction creator does however controls all the homes in the town and the way the 'city icon' looks on the strat map. You could have a problem here if the creator is roman (for example) but the culture is eastern. On the strat map it would look like a roman town with roman stone walls, but on the battle map you would find eastern walls (as they are one of the buildings controlled by faction culture) surrounding those roman houses.

Being a fussy modder, I - to add another dimension to the thread - like the building browser scroll (with the building trees) to represent the settlement's structures. However, it simply shows what is built or buildable based on the faction in current ownership.

So, if you (as romans) have (say) just captured an eastern city you will see the eastern "icons" in the town tab at the bottom of the interface (with cultural difference in paranthesis) but when you go to the building browser it will tell you that it is your own culture-style of building that exists.

:(

the building browser has become almost totally useless with EB. When you start adding variables to the 'requires' lines, it has serious problems. Some variables that are simple don't give it problems, but there are some whole complexes that it refuses to show now, plus many levels that it won't.

Ah, yes that is true but there is some flexibility and ways of dealing with that if you code the EDB and cultures/factions carefully ;)

I fully intend the Fourth Age to have an accurate building browser for each settlement - it's been a nightmare getting it right but so far I have only one problem I have not worked out how to overcome (other than the "annoyance" mentioned in my last post) and that is merely in the form of a show_err exit error which should not otherwise affect the game.

You have to have your wits about you though, that much is clear!

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Originally Posted by Dol Guldur

Ah, yes that is true but there is some flexibility and ways of dealing with that if you code the EDB and cultures/factions carefully ;)

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??? What's with the wink? Speak up! :laugh4: Is there some secret about EDB you're concealing? :eyebrows:

Talking about the tree... is there anything in particular that keeps it from having problems? I've had awful problems with one thing specifically - descr_strat.txt sometimes places a building that displays incorrectly, but I know it's right because you can build it fine and it shows up fine (once the game starts).

It's the one EDB to rule them all. My precious! :)

Well, we'll see - darn, is 64 trees still the limit?

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descr_strat.txt sometimes places a building that displays incorrectly, but I know it's right because you can build it fine and it shows up fine (once the game starts).

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Explain your problem more. The DS file determines starting buildings - are you saying that these do not display correctly under the lower interface's settlement tab (i.e. "buildings built") pane? That appearance, as I'm sure you know, would be determined by the combination you have defined on those points referenced in your initial post. But you know this. I am perhaps not understanding you.

It's pretty weird. It has to do with seeing (Roman) appear on your tooltip passover on an icon you know you have a specific variant for your other culture (whatever other one that is). You also would see the Roman or base name and description. It happens a lot actually for us for some factions.

It only ever happens when ds.txt places the buildings - never when you make them in game (which shows me the files are all named properly). But we can place them with scripts and it shows up fine (the second after ds.txt gets through placing them we have the scripts place the problem ones now). Very weird.

But we have separate faction names and descriptions for every building, so it's very complicated. EB.txt is 3.7 megabytes large now with all our text descriptions.

Heres' a link to a little more about it:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...40&postcount=1

If the coding is the same for these buildings in EB's EB (always wanted to say that!) then it may indeed be related to cultural-faction assignments and/or to limitations thereto (such as with the carthaginian culture). I hope Nikolai can help...I've made a post in the forum linked.

Does anyone know all the details about how the game decides who a province will rebel to?

I thought it was just faction creator. But sometimes the province just goes to rebel status. Sometimes it goes to faction culture though it seems too. Gah!

I'm curious about this too. I am hoping someone has done quite a bit of testing on this.