Bolivia rises

Evo Morales, the new president of Bolivia, is a populist. Unlike Castro or Chavez, Morales came from the lower stract of Bolivia's society, the natives. Now he's facing the great responsability of ruling a country. Started with the right foot I could say, by standing for their production and their industry without listening to outsiders affairs. It's not at all a nationalistic appeal, it's just the right thing to do now that the poor people may rise and win an spot in a clasist society as Bolivia was.
The elected president presented himself before Castro who suported his election and called for a new age of South American prosperity, maybe Latin American. Maybe this is something extraordinary, being the first time, to my knowledge, that someone of the lower class, even marginal, could achieve a power position in a South American country. Not to my believes but come to your own conclussions.

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Castro said: "I think that it has moved the world. It's something extraordinary, something historic. The map is changing."

Morales' visit to Cuba underlines the political loyalties of the leftist leader, who pledged to join Castro's "anti-imperialist struggle" in a message to the Cuban people the day after his election.

A week ago, Chavez, referring to Morales' win, said "(US) threats have already begun. From here on in, we are demanding that the immoral imperialist US government respect the holy sovereignty of Bolivia and the government elected by Bolivia."

Morales has vowed to nationalise Bolivia's large natural gas industry and end the US-sponsored coca eradication programme that he says has hurt farmers and failed to curb drug trafficking.

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What do you people think?

Hm, Bolivia.. Bolivia.. Which South American country was that again: the one with the civil war, the one with the cocaine, or the one with the fancy hats?

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Originally Posted by Proletariat

Hm, Bolivia.. Bolivia.. Which South American country was that again: the one with the civil war, the one with the cocaine, or the one with the fancy hats?

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Ja:laugh4: I remember that joke (Stuart Griffin right?). It would be the one with the cocaine I suppose.:idea2:

I figured you'd know your Family Guy. Stewie indeed. :2thumbsup:

It would be alright if he just was a populist, but the fact he's a racist and doesn't give a crap about drug would lead me to think he kind of sucks.

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Originally Posted by Meneldil

It would be alright if he just was a populist, but the fact he's a racist and doesn't give a crap about drug would lead me to think he kind of sucks.

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What do you mean with racist Meneldil? I personally don't like populist too much, but this one is keeping his promises (campaining promises) so let's not be so harsh. I'm more concerned with the fact that the guy appears to be mostly uninformed and appears to be mostly unexperienced on the field of politic science, even more when he has to sustain the political and social coherence of a decaying country such as Bolivia.
The fact that he doesn't give a crap about drugs shows that he either is a progresist (wich I like the better) or he's concerned with the primary production on the farmlands, wich is the most probable motivation, taking in account that he also wants to fight against the infamous crime of drug possetion and dealing. I really thought you'll be on the side of the liberalities in this subject...~;)

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Originally Posted by Meneldil

It would be alright if he just was a populist, but the fact he's a racist and doesn't give a crap about drug would lead me to think he kind of sucks.

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I agree with the Frenchmen for once.

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Originally Posted by Soulforged

What do you mean with racist Meneldil? I personally don't like populist too much, but this one is keeping his promises (campaining promises) so let's not be so harsh. I'm more concerned with the fact that the guy appears to be mostly uninformed and appears to be mostly unexperienced on the field of politic science, even more when he has to sustain the political and social coherence of a decaying country such as Bolivia.
The fact that he doesn't give a crap about drugs shows that he either is a progresist (wich I like the better) or he's concerned with the primary production on the farmlands, wich is the most probable motivation, taking in account that he also wants to fight against the infamous crime of drug possetion and dealing. I really thought you'll be on the side of the liberalities in this subject...~;)

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I might be wrong, but I heard he made some violent speech against the formerly ruling white majority. Since I read that in a conservative south american newspaper, it might be only crap, but the guy still appears to be playing with the us (natives) against them (white) opposition, and that sounds like racism.

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Originally Posted by Soulforged

he's concerned with the primary production on the farmlands, wich is the most probable motivation

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Agreed, I don't think (and I hope) the guy isn't promoting drug dealing, but once again, I had the feeling his opinion was more or less "Farmers can cultivate whatever they want, and I won't bother drug dealers and cultivaters".

As for his economical policies, I'm not sure it will be a success, but I hope the fact he refuses to listen to so called liberal foreign economists will help his country.

I might be wrong, but I heard he made some violent speech against the formerly ruling white majority.
Which white majority could that possibly be ?:oops:

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Originally Posted by Meneldil

I might be wrong, but I heard he made some violent speech against the formerly ruling white majority. Since I read that in a conservative south american newspaper, it might be only crap, but the guy still appears to be playing with the us (natives) against them (white) opposition, and that sounds like racism.

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There's no white majority in Bolivia all are more or less "morochos" or "morenos", or plain "negros". He makes that speeches because it's the truth, the rich, not the majority, have all the opportunities, there's (or was) a notorious unbalance between the different classes, even for a capitalist country, the natives were, however, plain and simple marginalized, out of the system. This makes his rise to power even more extraordinary if you want. But I wouldn't call him a racist, a socialist if you want but not a racist. ~;)

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Agreed, I don't think (and I hope) the guy isn't promoting drug dealing, but once again, I had the feeling his opinion was more or less "Farmers can cultivate whatever they want, and I won't bother drug dealers and cultivaters".

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Well don't you believe the same? I know this is a large separated subject but, it's private property and as long as I don't damage other people's rights in any form, or abuse of mine, then I can cultivate whatever I want. The problem seems to be in the root, an in another place for discussion (wich was discussed many times actually) and it's on the morality or legallity if you want of drug use.

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As for his economical policies, I'm not sure it will be a success, but I hope the fact he refuses to listen to so called liberal foreign economists will help his country.

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Well it could be said, by a latin american, that it's our only way out, separation from the rest of the world, I don't like it, but from the logic, cold point of view that's the only way out I see right now if we want to remain as a country, speaking on the general situation of all Latin America.

I sincerely hope it will work out for Bolivia. Bear in mind that socialism in Latin America has no institutional history, little or no middle class (intellectual) support and very little experience in government due to the Cold War policies of a certain Northern neighbour. Besides, the difference in wealth and power in most Latin American countries creates acrimony and confrontation in ways that we, in Northern America and Europe, last experienced in the Great Depression of the nineteen thirties, and this makes it extremely hard to establish balanced, long-term policies of sustained social progress. Bolivia has gone to the dogs ten times, it can hardly fall any deeper under this man, but it might be better off. Fingers crossed &cetera.

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Originally Posted by AdrianII

due to the Cold War policies of a certain Northern neighbour.

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Damn Canada. With my limited kowledge South America is a mess due to among other things corruption and the drug trade. I would love to see South America get up. Maybe a country like Brazil with little corruption and almots no drug trade(or I could just be pissing in the wind here.)

Great things can happen to 3rd World Countries, it's just a matter of figuring out the issue and resolving it. The US, and Europe should support Bolivia in this matter, but I fear it might fall through. Take Mali for example, Mali is one of the poorest countries in the world, not because it should be, but because geographically it is impossible to have any real chance of gaining wealth. It has no oil, it has little water, and it almost completely lacks any arable land. Yet they're one of the most prosperous democracies in the world, and easily the free-est country in northern africa. If Mali can figure it out, then Bolivia should be able to stomp them into the ground

But of course, for Bolivia to recover from the pits of Tartarus and rise back to Purgatory it would require a real leader. This man might be, or might be not.

And they are an absolutely rare commodity since the birth of time, or just humanity. We need them everywhere and I've yet to see one anywhere in my short lifetime on Earth.

South America is one of the most troubled areas of the world, thanks to many factors, including, but not limited to, the Cold War policies of the United States. But every problem has a solution, hey. At least now, a native Bolivian holds the government of Bolivia.

But don't keep your hopes up, Soulforged, sadly...

I don't care about his populist rhetoric. If he wants to blame the US for all his country's ills I say fine, you're wrong but fine. Nationalise the natural gas, fine, you'll still need help, that is unless you've suddenly learned how to explore, develop and build an energy infrastructure. Play to the crowd, whatever.

But,

To propose eliminating eradication is unacceptably irresponsible. His policy, I believe, is to allow production for legal use (fine), but what is the size of the market for home remedy use of coca leaves? What will happen to the surplus production? I have a guess:skull:

If governments are going to allow cultivation of plants that are used in the drug-trade, then Afghanistan should be allowed to grow poppies. Too bad if millions are affected by opium...it's not Afghanistan's problem, they only grow poppies to look at (they're so pretty).

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Originally Posted by Soulforged

What do you people think?

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That the rest of the world should leave Bolivia the hell alone... :coffeenews:

When was the last time Bolivia mattered?
I bet most american "politicians" are already talking about an invasion.:laugh4:

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Originally Posted by AdrianII

I sincerely hope it will work out for Bolivia. Bear in mind that socialism in Latin America has no institutional history, little or no middle class (intellectual) support and very little experience in government due to the Cold War policies of a certain Northern neighbour.

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We've always had a problem with institutionalization, wheter it's socialism or not. Our politicians are no more than a bunch of oportunists crows, since the begining of times of freedom down here. Institutions are praying right now before almighty president, as always another tiran disguised behind procedures.

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Besides, the difference in wealth and power in most Latin American countries creates acrimony and confrontation in ways that we, in Northern America and Europe, last experienced in the Great Depression of the nineteen thirties, and this makes it extremely hard to establish balanced, long-term policies of sustained social progress.

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That's truth, the MERCUSUR was supposed to end with that. Now almost espontaneusly and and without reflexion there are a lot of liberal press and landowners, and why not politicians looking at the ALCA with bright eyes. I think that the right way to go is just that grow up the basement before complicating your life with expanded economy.

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Bolivia has gone to the dogs ten times, it can hardly fall any deeper under this man, but it might be better off. Fingers crossed &cetera.

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I think Bolivia never rised really. But I follow your feelings, even more living so close.

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Originally Posted by STFS

Damn Canada. With my limited kowledge South America is a mess due to among other things corruption and the drug trade. I would love to see South America get up. Maybe a country like Brazil with little corruption and almots no drug trade(or I could just be pissing in the wind here.)

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Drug trade has nothing to do. Corruption is one factor, but I could say that the most important one is the problem brought decades ago by neoliberalism in an unprepared economy with little internal organization and a lot of debts to pay. Well mostly the same situation is valid for this times.

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Originally Posted by Antiochus III

But don't keep your hopes up, Soulforged, sadly...

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Don't worry I'm not holding my breath...~;)

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I don't care about his populist rhetoric. If he wants to blame the US for all his country's ills I say fine, you're wrong but fine. Nationalise the natural gas, fine, you'll still need help, that is unless you've suddenly learned how to explore, develop and build an energy infrastructure. Play to the crowd, whatever.

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He never blamed USA for all it's ills:inquisitive:, only for pushing their own policies in foreing dominion, as usual. About the gas, we're helping them as a brother helps other in need, because we need the benefits if you're utilitarian.

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To propose eliminating eradication is unacceptably irresponsible. His policy, I believe, is to allow production for legal use (fine), but what is the size of the market for home remedy use of coca leaves? What will happen to the surplus production? I have a guess

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Actually it's not, knowing that the Coca is not a drug while cocaine is. However even if it was a drug it's still not a problem, it's more about freedom. But all legal an moral matters aside, the coca plantations are the primary production in Bolivia with mining. No if you take that USA has been trying to erradicate the cultives by a puppet like agreement with the previous governments you'll know why it's so important to liberate the production, for both exportation and internal conssume.

I suspect we'll be seeing an increase of "immigrants" from Bolivia. The post-classical Incans had a redistributive (socialist) economy which left them ripe for the picking when the Spanish arrived.

I'm certain that if the new Bolivian regime doesn't work out for the US the CIA will sort things out (think Venuezela etc).

The CIA couldn't even find the WMD's in Iraq that the UN said he had. Now it seems the thing the agency's best at is leaking classified information.