Curious.. what unit doesnt have a ranged weapon

I know that many nations attempted(and some successfully did) to copy the style of the legionnare infantry and pre marian versions (of which rome copied the idea elsewhere) by using pila or other skirmish weapons, but was it that common?. I can chase my foes all the way to the end of baktria to end up seeing a far eastern militiaman in the reloading phase to be followed up by a shower of imported Pahlavian boots. (of course the story is not accurate, just emphasizing the mass use of an offhand range weapon on non phalanx infantry types).

Well, I would figure that the abundance of ranged arms in the east is due to the need of being able to defend oneself against the nomadic raiders and invaders so evident in that corner of the world.

Elsewhere, a javelin would be an easy to make thing, that would help slow down a charge. I guess that's the historical logic behind it. :P

Seeing a throwing spear or a jav on a melee infantry unit doesn't have anything to do with copying the romans. Celts had been doing it long before the Romans did and the Greeks created troops like Peltasts and Thuerophoroi without any Roman influence.

I think that rather than Romans being the innovators of the javelin and melee attack styles that instead this form of combat had been around for much much longer. Romans undoubtedly copied from someone else.

There are a few Casse troops without ranged secondary weapons, but I have to say that there is nothing finer in this game than seeing a unit of Boatros soldiers throw javelins into the charging enemy before rushing in themselves. Man I love the Casse troops.

Foot

I don't know about you guys, but if I were going into battle, I'd prefer to have something cheap I could throw at my enemy before I got within striking range of his sword!

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Originally Posted by Foot

I think that rather than Romans being the innovators of the javelin and melee attack styles that instead this form of combat had been around for much much longer. Romans undoubtedly copied from someone else.
Foot

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Yes, I would have covered that fact in my first post. Seems as though it were the greeks thats influenced them in that fashion.. http://www.legionxxiv.org/weapons/ . Im sure a peltast, or one of its heavier variants.

heres something partially interesting http://www.archaeology.org/9905/newsbriefs/china.html ok this guy has issues.. http://naturesdesignsonline.com/Cat-of-nine-tails.htm

More likely they got it from the Samnites, who used heavy throwing spears and caused the Roman rejection of the phalanx in favor of the maniple (and thus opened up the use of jav/melee combination. It could also have the Celts also, the greeks are the least likely source, as the Peltast evolved with major Celtic influences (just look at the shield).

The Etruscans already used a socketed type of heavy javelin, at the time of their dominance over Rome, and the Lati League.

It was the gaul that in fact forced rome to drop the phalanx.

Sarcasm wrote; "The Etruscans already used a socketed type of heavy javelin"

"socketed" ... just had a Diablo 2 flashback. :P

I was saying that they adopted the Maniple from the Samnites to replace the phalanx. Lots of factors led them to gradually phase out the phalanx.

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Originally Posted by QwertyMIDX

More likely they got it from the Samnites, who used heavy throwing spears and caused the Roman rejection of the phalanx in favor of the maniple (and thus opened up the use of jav/melee combination. It could have the Celts also, the greeks are the least likely source, as the Peltast evolved with major Celtic influences (just look at the shield).

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The peltast evolved with thracian influences. The ovular shield came later, and was actually taken from celtic-influenced thracians.

Guys, the romans are not the only people ever to think of throwing a projectile and then engaging in melee. It isn't that revolutionary of a concept.

Matt, I said with celtic influences, not only celtic influence, and I was talking about the EB peltast. :idea2:

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Originally Posted by Malrubius

I don't know about you guys, but if I were going into battle, I'd prefer to have something cheap I could throw at my enemy before I got within striking range of his sword!

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Well when hurling weapons at the enemy, I would prefer an expensive well made weapon would be my choice...

I think this idea (first using range weapons, then closing for melee) has been around since the dawn of civilization (even some monkeys do it...), but the Romans really got it down to a science.

yes.. they got it down to a science. What the romans did was make the Pila armor piercing, by adding a lead weight behind the joint block on the heavy pilum to increase range and impact force.

The Iberians were better at it than the romans, have you folks seen the soliferum?

Romans are gettign credit for other mans inventions....theri onyl brilliance is their arrogance, lack of rules in war and mixing all the right idea's together...

doubles-post-whoopsie

The lorica segmentata could be credited to them, though only because it looks original enough that the similarities with the clibanarius/kataphraktoi become more subtle.

There's no doubt as to the true source of inspiration.

Oh, the corvus was a Roman invention if I'm not entirely mistaken.

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Originally Posted by Shigawire

The lorica segmentata could be credited to them, though only because it looks original enough that the similarities with the clibanarius/kataphraktoi become more subtle.

There's no doubt as to the true source of inspiration.

Oh, the corvus was a Roman invention if I'm not entirely mistaken.

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they invented a lot, no doubt. but not eveyrthign seen int he roman army is "a roman invention of sheer brilliance"

but made I'm just bitchign, because I'm still bummed Greeks didn't rule teh world...