Playable Senate?!

I recently tried to play as the Senate. Obviously, you have to mod the desc_strat file in your RTW directory to unlock this faction, but I have heard testimony that it was impossible to play as the Senate due to bugs or whatever.

I never saw anything like this. Sure, it's difficult to get the Senate off the ground simply because Rome is hemmoraging money like crazy, but managed correctly I saw nothing wrong. I quickly conquered Caralis and Lilybaeum with my considerable standing army and set Rome's tax rate to very high and started having a positive income.

Now, I did locate one bug, and that was the 'Senate' tab on the diplomacy screen. Using the other Roman factions, you would click this tab to see the Senate's status, but, as the Senate, obviously your priorities are different. Upon clicking on this tab, the game immediately crashed to the desktop. However, it would seem to me that if you either a) Never touch that tab, or b) Somehow mod the Senate's game so that that tab is unavailable, the Senate would be a fully playable faction.

What I'd like to know is about any future bugs. Anyone have any info?

Interesting. Though doesn't sound too appealing to me, I am of course assuming you do not have the ability like the AI Senate has to order missions, send messages etc, I am correct to assume those things are impossible? So yeah, one starting province and you're boxed in by allies....could be a difficult game imo

...You would have a huge standing army with which to immediately begin conquering.....It would be very interesting to see how the three roman factions respond to you.

Tell us more.

Erm...as a senate you won't have the power to order around people like the senate once did to you. Sorry, no sweet revenge and proper manipulation of the patriotism of your fellow country, just like you couldn't manipulate the faithful Catholics as a Papal faction in MTW would do if it was A.I.

It is also bugged and I never heard of anyone ever winning the game.

There are also reports of random CTD's, though the consistent "senate tap" one is there no matter what.

Nonetheless, an RTW game doesn't need to be finished, and it's helluva fun to just going around crushing enemies to pieces with your veteran army from the start.

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Erm...as a senate you won't have the power to order around people like the senate once did to you. Sorry, no sweet revenge and proper manipulation of the patriotism of your fellow country, just like you couldn't manipulate the faithful Catholics as a Papal faction in MTW would do if it was A.I.

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Yup. Senate just plays like your run of the mill faction, from what I've seen.

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It is also bugged and I never heard of anyone ever winning the game.

There are also reports of random CTD's, though the consistent "senate tap" one is there no matter what.

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About these bugs. Could I get some examples? As of now I am going to start fresh on RTW now that I've patched up to 1.5 (by that I mean playing each faction on easy, then replaying them on medium, etc.). Following this order, the Senate would fall as 4th, so I'd like to know of any outstanding bugs besides the "senate tap" one. That is one I think I can remedy by some well-placed modification, and if worst comes to worst I can just try my best to avoid it.

I think the main bug is that the game crashes when you get to 50 provinces, so you can't 'win' as the Senate. Other than that, I can't think of any off hand. You may want to check out the modding section here or at the twcenter, as I'm sure this topic has been covered there a lot in the past.

Hmm. Do you think there would be anyway to trick the game into getting over 50. May seem weird and I have next to no mod knowledge so this is purely guess work. But...

Let's say your on 49 provinces, for this example we will be the Brutii. You've hammered back the Macedonians back to Sparta and Athens. Now what would happen if you managed to get them to be a protectorate? Your province count would jump straight to 51 provinces not 50. Perhaps this could skip the trigger that causes to ctd????

Puely guess work and probably wouldnt work. But if somebody has time and patients it might be worth a try...

The easy way to trick the game in any situation is to just let Rome rebel. You can't win the game without Rome (plus, Rome is such a crappy settlement anyway).

Despite appearances the Senate is not a faction like any other, or intended to be playable. The Senate is as much a scoring mechanism and a mission generator as it is a faction, so don't be surprised if the game goes loopy when you play as the Senate.

The Senate is actually doing a bunch of stuff in monitoring Roman attitudes that the other factions don't do, and modding the game to make them playable renders the whole thing very unstable: basically, the game will crash sooner or later.

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Originally Posted by Captain Fishpants

Despite appearances the Senate is not a faction like any other, or intended to be playable. The Senate is as much a scoring mechanism and a mission generator as it is a faction, so don't be surprised if the game goes loopy when you play as the Senate.

The Senate is actually doing a bunch of stuff in monitoring Roman attitudes that the other factions don't do, and modding the game to make them playable renders the whole thing very unstable: basically, the game will crash sooner or later.

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I see, I suppose that makes sense, they way they are setup with only one province and such suggests they are not a 'true faction'.

Edit: Interesting idea for a mod. Just like RTR did, dissolve the Senate first of all. Then create a new faction like EB did and name them the SPQR, starting provinces: Rome. Then give them the starting troops and stats that the 'true' Senate has, make them purple and bang. Theorettically your not playing as the games Senate but you are playing as a purple faction named the Senate.

Heh again probably wont work, but maybe...

Hmm, Captain Fishpants...
What exactly does "options bi" tag in descr_start.txt file of barbarian invasion file.

Since you obviosuly turned off senate logic for BI campaign, so maybe something similar needs to be done to original campaign too make it less buggy while playing unlocked senate faction.

Of course, it would totaly change game when playing other roman factions (no more real senate), but it would be still interesting to know.

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Originally Posted by Captain Fishpants

Despite appearances the Senate is not a faction like any other, or intended to be playable. The Senate is as much a scoring mechanism and a mission generator as it is a faction, so don't be surprised if the game goes loopy when you play as the Senate.

The Senate is actually doing a bunch of stuff in monitoring Roman attitudes that the other factions don't do, and modding the game to make them playable renders the whole thing very unstable: basically, the game will crash sooner or later.

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Is there any similar factions in BI which should not be made playable ?

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Originally Posted by player1

Hmm, Captain Fishpants...
What exactly does "options bi" tag in descr_start.txt file of barbarian invasion file.

Since you obviosuly turned off senate logic for BI campaign, so maybe something similar needs to be done to original campaign too make it less buggy while playing unlocked senate faction.

Of course, it would totaly change game when playing other roman factions (no more real senate), but it would be still interesting to know.

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The "options bi" tag is used to enable features specific to Barbarian Invasion, and not necessarily turn off RTW code.

I have to point out that I'm not a coder here, but the chances are that, given that BI has its own version of the .EXE, code related to the Senate has been removed/disabled anyway. This particular option probably won't do anything helpful when used with the original descr_start file and .EXE.

Hope that helps.

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Originally Posted by IceTorque

Is there any similar factions in BI which should not be made playable ?

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It's probably a good idea from a stability point of view to avoid using the emergent factions as playable ones: the Roman Rebels, the Romano-British, the Ostrogoths and the Slavs. Any of the starting factions will be fine, though.

There are plenty of threads knocking about here and at other sites relating to this aspect of modding, as you probably know.

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Originally Posted by Captain Fishpants

I have to point out that I'm not a coder here, but the chances are that, given that BI has its own version of the .EXE, code related to the Senate has been removed/disabled anyway. This particular option probably won't do anything helpful when used with the original descr_start file and .EXE.

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Actually bi.exe (RomeTW-BI.exe) does have the Senate inside. The best way to see that at work is to copy the RTW \data folder and name it \my_mod and then start BI with -mod:my_mod option. Not only the Senate works like in RTW but the religions are there too.

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Originally Posted by Captain Fishpants

It's probably a good idea from a stability point of view to avoid using the emergent factions as playable ones: the Roman Rebels, the Romano-British, the Ostrogoths and the Slavs. Any of the starting factions will be fine, though.

There are plenty of threads knocking about here and at other sites relating to this aspect of modding, as you probably know.

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The Romano-British are clearly special because they can emerge without having the can_horde ability.

Speaking about emerging, do you have any idea about why an emergent faction can only show up on the tiles which are on the edge of the world map?

Is there a way to make a faction emerge in a province which is not on the edge of the map?

ostrogoths and roman rebels dont emerge on edge of map.

neither do romanobritish but they do appear on edge of land (map continues into water)

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Originally Posted by Captain Fishpants

It's probably a good idea from a stability point of view to avoid using the emergent factions as playable ones: the Roman Rebels, the Romano-British, the Ostrogoths and the Slavs. Any of the starting factions will be fine, though.

There are plenty of threads knocking about here and at other sites relating to this aspect of modding, as you probably know.

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do you know why its only the celts and berbers that becomes playable after i made all the starting factions playable? if i choose Lombardi ie. i crash to desktop.

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Originally Posted by TheViking

do you know why its only the celts and berbers that becomes playable after i made all the starting factions playable? if i choose Lombardi ie. i crash to desktop.

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You have to add descriptions, `cause they have none.

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Originally Posted by Viking

You have to add descriptions, `cause they have none.

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can you help me how to do that?

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Originally Posted by Viking

You have to add descriptions, `cause they have none.

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This is not problem anymore with 1.6
With 1.6 you don't need descriptions anymore to make non-playables work.

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Originally Posted by TheViking

can you help me how to do that?

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After reading player1's post: have you patched to 1.6?

If you cannot do that for some reason, then you`ll find the descriptions in C:\Program Files\Activision\Rome - Total War\bi\data\text\campaign_descriptions

Then you just copy the descriptons for the other factions, and alter them.

i will download the patch as soon as i get to next lan, cause i have no internet at home.

thanks a lot.

Senatorial cities cannot revolt - that might be okay. Neither can they be attacked. They are boring to play.

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Originally Posted by lar

ostrogoths and roman rebels dont emerge on edge of map.

neither do romanobritish but they do appear on edge of land (map continues into water)

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By factions which emerge I mean emerging through an emergent_faction event (triggered by an entry in the descr_events.txt file). The Slavs are the ones who emerge this way in BI vanilla.

The Ostrogoths, the Romano-British or the Roman rebels pop-up based on random events (like revolts or Romans losing their cities in Britain). The Slavs emerge at a precise time and in a pre-set province. Unfortunately it seems such provinces need to be on the edge of the map, otherwise we only get the message that the faction has emerged but nothing actually happens.

Wow. I started this topic in January, and here it is.

What a world, what a world.

Oh, and yes indeed, this game does crash when you reach 50 provinces.

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Originally Posted by Viking

After reading player1's post: have you patched to 1.6?

If you cannot do that for some reason, then you`ll find the descriptions in C:\Program Files\Activision\Rome - Total War\bi\data\text\campaign_descriptions

Then you just copy the descriptons for the other factions, and alter them.

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after installing v1.6 all worked fine, is playing a campaing with the lombardi now.

thanks again for the help

Just thought I'd add my two pence. SPQR was fine for me, 1.2 and 1.3 :2thumbsup: (haven't got 1.6/1.5 yet...when I tried to patch the game to 1.6/1.5, it said there was no previous installation of BI...:inquisitive: :wall: and there is...:help:).

All you don't do is click on the Senate Offices tab or the Senate tab. And you can mod the victory conditions if you wish.