Markets/traders , worth it for WRE?

My only BI campaign so far WRE vh/vh finished 380.

I played predictably along the lines I've just read in the guides, except for markets/traders.

Because WRE is generally overpopulated I didn't build or even in some cases destroyed buildings which stimulated population, particularly traders/markets (and also farms/upgrades) .

I always concentrated on ports/upgrades first , and largely ignored changing religion.

I was never really was short of $'s (see below)and so wonder whether you guys consider traders/markets are really worth bothering about.? They just seems to make overpopulation worse.


Below: I was briefly short of $ when I overdid spreading the plague about, I'd forgotten it stopped trade as well as reducing population, one turn I had 7 cities infected and >20k dead.

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Originally Posted by Razor1952

Because WRE is generally overpopulated I didn't build or even in some cases destroyed buildings which stimulated population, particularly traders/markets (and also farms/upgrades) .

I always concentrated on ports/upgrades first , and largely ignored changing religion.

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Sounds about right - I do the same except may be in Britain or low population provinces where I want to get better troop building places or stone walls.

That's an awful quick WRE game, BTW. I am thinking about starting one for PBM with a number of constraints to make it last longer - e.g. no demolishing buildings, aiming only to take ERE provinces and not wiping out any small AI factions (e.g. Celts, Berbers and Allemani). How do you think that would play?

Did you solve your initial money problem by demolishing buildings and exterminating cities? With the above groundrules, you can get into the black by disbanding fleets and cavalry but it takes quite some time before you enough money to build everything you want in every city. I struggled to get the money to build enough troops to move onto the offensive.

Thats an interesting solution. I started by building farm upgrades, having demolished every non-profit/non-order building. Sure, I had Rebellions but they just produced more cash, I won in 410 and whats more my Empire is stable, wealthy and well defended. Oh, and I managed to make Christianity the dominant Religion.

If you want to make the game harder try to do more than just win, try to rebuild the Empire like I did so that once you've won you feel its going to endure. A lot of "Wins" leave a hollow Empire producing enough to support a couple of large frontier armies and garrisons of peasants.

Yes I let Salona go straightaway as a buffer state and the hordes and ERE fought themselves long and hard there while I just watched and laughed. I only defended the pass near Ravenna.

I let Avaricum/Lepcis Magna revolt after destroying troop making buildings and immediately exterminated for the cash. Moved capital to Arles. Demolished a few poor quality troop buildings and some markets

Released most non frontier troops/navy and most Limitanei(seem pretty useless guys IMHO). Built and retrained an upgraded army from Rome/Ravenna). Also concentrated on Academies/upgrades for the VNV's.Trained peasants as required and released further troops ruthlessly if likely to not be required.

Knocked over the Alemanni/Celts/Berbers/Franks/Saxons taking care not to release Hordes(though it occurs to me a great thing for ERE to do is travel to the Franks/Saxon areas and make them into hordes to pester your enemies).I only really had to contend a few times with the Goths.

I took Athens by sea invasion , then Constantinople the same way to finish. That left the Balkans unconquered but gave victory early. I guess I was lucky the main enemies destroyed themselves and I got in the backdoor.

Unlike vanilla (where I had enough money to build everywhere)I built only to improve income(ports), stability(arenas/academies/walls/baths) and in only a few places troops making buildings(Carthage-africa, Carth-Nova-Iberia,but mainly only Rome and Ravenna).
I was always in the black from turn 1(except for the plague). I think one of the no peasant mods may be more challenging making the destroy troop buildings revolt and exterminate solution much harder and garrisoning more expensive.

Playing just to defeat the ERE would make a good mod if you could change the victory condition to destruction of that faction ? possible.

The question am going to ask is: Are Markets/Traders worth it at all? I get a city with 1650 denarii from trade, I build it a market, it becomes 1700, is that worth the 3 turns?

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Originally Posted by x-dANGEr

The question am going to ask is: Are Markets/Traders worth it at all? I get a city with 1650 denarii from trade, I build it a market, it becomes 1700, is that worth the 3 turns?

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The question is really when playing overpopulated faction, is the % increase in population too much a penalty to build markets?.

In your city the extra 50 Denarii equates to 24 turns to get a return, so if your game is going to last longer than another 24 turns then you will turn a profit.Some major cities have trade worth 2-3 k then market will increase profits by say 200 denarii then return is only 6 years.

As for the 3 turns it takes to build so long as your city doesn't need troop making or "stabilizing" buildings then the strategy becomes purely $ driven, that is aside from the % population question as posited above.

Am I the only one that finds it sad that one spends so much time thinking of ways to de-populate settlements in RTW?

Not only is it ahistorical, it's no fun!

I don't depopulate usually, I just go with it until the plague hits.

PLague is mercy in late game.. I spraed it all over my provinces and nah, my pricnes won't die..