American Black history month...

I don't think there should be a month that celebrates the achievements of Blacks in the United States. I believe that American history, which involves all races and cultures, should be taught and celebrated and be all inclussive. In a way, if I was black, I would find it insulting as an American that is black, that my achievements of my ancestors only be celebrated for one month. To achieve true equality, we need to stop deviding ourselves, as Americans, between race and religious view points. Black history month is only contributing the "us against them" between Blacks, Whites, Hispanics, Asians, etc going both ways. What's your opinion? Apparently African American Morgan Freedman agrees with me. I'm sure there are some here that would dissagree with me, but I wonder if they truelly believe that equality can truelly be achieved through deviding thoughts, race, and beliefs in a ttempt to make everything "fair"?

I'm taking bets on how fast this is going to be locked. It is a bit of an irony though that it is the shortest month in the year.

Im not, because Dev Dave has a point. I agree. But if the blacks in US want a self celebrating day, then be my guest.

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Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave

To achieve true equality, we need to stop deviding ourselves, as Americans, between race and religious view points.

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Actually I completely agree with this statement ~:)

Can I have an all white history day? If I was black this kind of stuff would offend me. It's like saying that you are less then others. Why bring gifts if it isn't someones birthday.

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Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave

To achieve true equality, we need to stop deviding ourselves, as Americans, between race and religious view points. Black history month is only contributing the "us against them" between Blacks, Whites, Hispanics, Asians, etc going both ways. What's your opinion?

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Oh, I totally agree. And this as all the more reason to get rid of the official Christmas trees and Presidential Christmas greetings.

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Originally Posted by AdrianII

Oh, I totally agree. And this as all the more reason to get rid of the official Christmas trees and Presidential Christmas greetings.

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Christmas is today more a cliche than a celebration of the birth of Jesus. Christmas trees doesn`t have much to do with religion either, and are more a part of western culture. Let`s keep it that way.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Can I have an all white history day? If I was black this kind of stuff would offend me. It's like saying that you are less then others. Why bring gifts if it isn't someones birthday.

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I would be as much if not more disgusted for a "white" history month. The achievements of Blacks throughout the world should be celebrated not for one month but throughout the year as well as achievements of all other Americans.

European friends... Do you guys have months designated for certain achievements of different races? I see this as a by product of a sort of modern day segregation. Very sad, but if someone could find me where I'm arong, I'd love to see another point of view.

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Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave

I would be as much if not more disgusted for a "white" history month. The achievements of Blacks throughout the world should be celebrated not for one month but throughout the year as well as achievements of all other Americans.

European friends... Do you guys have months designated for certain achievements of different races? I see this as a by product of a sort of modern day segregation. Very sad, but if someone could find me where I'm arong, I'd love to see another point of view.

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No, just the celebrations of international ties, like the independance of Indonesia for example. Why make it racial, I always wondered what why the hell there should be a black version of miss universe(?), if a black women is beautifull she is beautifull. You are right that is is in fact (positive, so even worse) segregation, but it america is in no way unique when it comes to this. Some 'races' aren't doing very well in Europe, and we also feel the need to do something special fo them. Complete bs if you ask me, succeed or fail, when someone succeeds, don't rob him of his sense of ackomplishment.

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Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave

European friends... Do you guys have months designated for certain achievements of different races? I see this as a by product of a sort of modern day segregation. Very sad, but if someone could find me where I'm arong, I'd love to see another point of view.

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We have Black History Month in October. I agree with you, I don't see why one particular group should be separated for celebration of their history for one month of the year only.

Of course the usefulness of such an exercise is debatable unless there is a clear marginalisation of black Americans in the teaching of American history. I very much doubt that there is any deliberate bias in this sense any more, although sadly the historical footprint of a poorly educated minority underclass, no matter the grouping, is a limiting factor. This alone may justify the official highlighting of the presence of this group in the historical makeup of the States, in the same way in which one might shine light on the lives of Russian peasants or Britons working in those dark satanic mills. Similar policies have been used in the teaching of, for want of a better term, women's history. Is it devisive? It could be if designed to be, it depends so much on the idividual projects involved. I would say that in general it is no more devisive than references to "black Americans" or "African Americans". Are they not simply Americans? It seems not.

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Originally Posted by AdrianII

Oh, I totally agree. And this as all the more reason to get rid of the official Christmas trees and Presidential Christmas greetings.

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You do know that it's now officially a 'holiday tree' and warmest 'holiday' greetings. I don't think the government is allowed to use the word Christmas anywhere.

I suppose if we had a White History month it would considered racist, even though white people have had a huge impact on American Culture. If the Blacks get a history, then I think all races should get a history month, because every race has contributed well, everything we know and stand for. I think people put waaaaaaaaay to much emphasis on skin colour, and not enough emphasis on the individual or culture. If George Washington Carver was a white guy, I wonder if he'd get any recognition at all. Lol.

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Originally Posted by Slyspy

Are they not simply Americans? It seems not.

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I think that the sad truth is that we are in fact all racists; when I get along with a black person I think what a nice black person. Not because I want to, I just do. People are social beings, you can't force nature. We are all humans but we are also different species of humans, dark skin isn't another type of white flesh. Positive discrimination is violently forcing a process that needs a whole lot of time.

As for the purposes of this topic, I would agree completely. What keeps me from signing on to an end of Black History Month is that even with it, your average college educated American cannot name the accomplishments of a single black scientist beyond George Washington Carver or a black educator other than Booker T. Washington.

Look, I agree with the theory, that so long as a Black History Month exists, we cannot claim equality exists. But I also believe that until white and black (for that matter) America catch up on learning about the accomplishments of black America, it serves a purpose.

Wow, did I actually just say all that? :dizzy2: Seriously, before you guys jump down my throat, Dave/Gawain, ask even your veteran buddies who the Tuskegee Airmen were. Ask your average Civil War enthusiast who the 54th Massachussets were, and what they did. Until then, we may not like it, but we don't know our history.

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Originally Posted by Don Corleone

Wow, did I actually just say all that? :dizzy2: Seriously, before you guys jump down my throat, Dave/Gawain, ask even your veteran buddies who the Tuskegee Airmen were. Ask your average Civil War enthusiast who the 54th Massachussets were, and what they did. Until then, we may not like it, but we don't know our history.

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The Majority might remember that a movie was made based upon the events and units that you mentioned.

Better yet how many Americans know what regiments (there were two) consisted of Buffalo Soldiers and where did they serve.

However most Americans can't name but two or three white scientists so the precentage equality by population is about the same.

Most American's don't even know what the Stars and Stripes stand for, I think in all fairness, no matter how much we try to educate people in our history, theres still going to be a proposterous level of ignorance.

You guys raise a valid point. I guess I'm assuming ignorance of black history is ignorance of 'black' history, not just ignorance of history in general. If that's the case, then yes, I'd certainly agree. Apportioning special considerations to a protected class will always make the protected class a separate entity, regardless of how good the intentions are.

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Originally Posted by Don Corleone

As for the purposes of this topic, I would agree completely. What keeps me from signing on to an end of Black History Month is that even with it, your average college educated American cannot name the accomplishments of a single black scientist beyond George Washington Carver or a black educator other than Booker T. Washington.

Look, I agree with the theory, that so long as a Black History Month exists, we cannot claim equality exists. But I also believe that until white and black (for that matter) America catch up on learning about the accomplishments of black America, it serves a purpose.

Wow, did I actually just say all that? :dizzy2: Seriously, before you guys jump down my throat, Dave/Gawain, ask even your veteran buddies who the Tuskegee Airmen were. Ask your average Civil War enthusiast who the 54th Massachussets were, and what they did. Until then, we may not like it, but we don't know our history.

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It's like the alignment of pluto and haleys comet - I completely agree!

:laugh4:

To paraphrase The Ring... Before you die, you agree with Idaho. I guess I have 24 hours before some little chicky with bad hair and a worse attitude arrives to do me in. :help:

My friend Marty's dad is black and his mom is white, so he only celebrates to the 15th

If Marty's dad was white and his mom black, would he celebrate from the 15th to the 28th? Wait, those relationships don't really happen...

Lol

Sure they do, its just not as common as the vice versa.

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Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave

I don't think there should be a month that celebrates the achievements of Blacks in the United States. I believe that American history, which involves all races and cultures, should be taught and celebrated and be all inclussive. In a way, if I was black, I would find it insulting as an American that is black, that my achievements of my ancestors only be celebrated for one month. To achieve true equality, we need to stop deviding ourselves, as Americans, between race and religious view points. Black history month is only contributing the "us against them" between Blacks, Whites, Hispanics, Asians, etc going both ways. What's your opinion? Apparently African American Morgan Freedman agrees with me. I'm sure there are some here that would dissagree with me, but I wonder if they truelly believe that equality can truelly be achieved through deviding thoughts, race, and beliefs in a ttempt to make everything "fair"?

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Is Black History Month some sort of government sponsored event in the U.S. and are any special considerations (i.e. paid holidays) given to African Americans during this period, or is Black History Month simply a time when African Americans celebrate their achievements and reflect upon what they think they need to do in the future?

If the former is the case, then I would agree with you Dave. But if the latter is the case, then I say let them have it. I don't see how celebrating achievements of blacks can be divisive, unless they are going out of the way to exclude non-blacks (i.e. "No, you can't have a cupcake, my mom sent me to school with these cupcakes for the black kids only because it's Black History Month.").

It only becomes an "us against them" situation if we choose to make it so. On the other hand, if we take the attitude that we (as non-blacks) acknowledge the fact that because of having had to overcome racism and prejudice, the achievements of African-Americans are all the more admirable, then there should be no problem.

I've had 3 serious relationships with black women in my life (1 in high school and 2 in college). All three told me the exact same thing, almost verbatim like they got it from a book:

"No matter how happy I am and how much I care for you, this relationship can never go anywhere. My family would never forgive me if I married a white guy".

Black women will date white men, they'll fall in love with them, hold long romances, you name it. But when it's time for them to get serious and settle down, they'll always break it off. It's very, very rare to see black women starting families with white men. Part of this is due to family pressures, and part of it is due to a cultural belief that regardless of how poorly black men are keeping up their end of the bargain, the black race depends on not having mixed race children. It's not that uncommon to see a black girl and a white guy, but I can't tell you the last time I saw said couple with children. Lenny Kravitz is the only example I can think of, and actually, his Dad is Jewish.

My Dad married an African-American, I know I've said it before, but she told him that they couldn't live in the (Southern) USA as a mixed couple. Some of the stories she has related to me really opened my eyes. As a white Anglo-Saxon Englishman I had no idea of how repression can be either blatent or subtle. It was an education for me.

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Originally Posted by Don Corleone

"No matter how happy I am and how much I care for you, this relationship can never go anywhere. My family would never forgive me if I married a white guy".

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Is it very different the other way around (i.e., how do many "white" parents react when the daughter brings home the "black" guy and tells them that they want to marry)?

EDIT: and that questions is not necessarily exclusively directed at US patrons, I know that my mother in law would very likely have freaked out, if my wife had brought home a black guy (she is one of these "I am not racist, but I don't think people are meant to mix" persons)

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Originally Posted by Ser Clegane

Is it very different the other way around (i.e., how do many "white" parents react when the daughter brings home the "black" guy and tells them that they want to marry)?

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Twenty five years ago, when I was a kid, it would have been as bad, if not worse. Nowadays, though, I think most of white America at least pays lip service to racial and gender equality and the idea that 'we need to keep our women pure and with their own kind' is very, very low brow among white America. I'm not saying deep down inside, white parents wouldn't feel that way necessarily, but they'd probably be much less likely to express it and would force themselves to accept their new son-in-law. Not much better, but some, and heading in the right direction.

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Originally Posted by Don Corleone

I've had 3 serious relationships with black women in my life (1 in high school and 2 in college). All three told me the exact same thing, almost verbatim like they got it from a book:

"No matter how happy I am and how much I care for you, this relationship can never go anywhere. My family would never forgive me if I married a white guy".

The three Black women I dated will date white men, they'll fall in love with them, hold long romances, you name it. But when it's time for them to get serious and settle down, they'll always break it off. It's very, very rare to see black women starting families with white men. Part of this is due to family pressures, and part of it is due to a cultural belief that regardless of how poorly black men are keeping up their end of the bargain, the black race depends on not having mixed race children. It's not that uncommon to see a black girl and a white guy, but I can't tell you the last time I saw said couple with children. Lenny Kravitz is the only example I can think of, and actually, his Dad is Jewish.

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Fixed.

Although I don't totally discount the conclusion you have drawn (i.e. mixed couples are rare in the US) from your anecdotal evidence, I think you need to remember that it is just that: anecdotal. And I also disagree with your conclusion that this lack of mixed couples stems from some need among blacks to keep their race pure. I think it probably has more to do with the fact that they are just doing what all people do naturally when choosing a mate: finding somebody they have things in common with.

And I know several mixed couples with children. Granted, this Canada, so maybe the "need to perpetuate the black race" you are talking about doesn't apply here. And maybe it has something to do with there being a much smaller black population in Canada and black women not wanting to limit themselves to trying to snare one of the few black men around.