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Just watched a documentary on Stalingrad, but one question still bugs me. The Germans seem to have had local air superiority; how could they not see the million Russian soldiers massing on their flanks? Didn't they have recon flights? I know their flanks were guarded by allies (e.g. Romanians), but you would have thought that it would have been difficult to conceal a million men and thousands of tanks, artillery, etc.
Hey - we as Soviets missed all the German build up in the recent battle of Kiev - see the current serialised novel in the Monastery - so why not the Germans in real life.
The real question with Stalingrad is why bother with the town at all? - why not go round it like they did with every other town? An even better question is why invade Russia in the first place.:book:
cos Hitler decided it would be great blow to Soviet morale to lose 'Stalin'grad, and Soviets agreed, and it became a symbolic struggle which both sides were to proud to give up on. IIRC, Operation Barbarossa was undertaken to seize the Soviet oilfields in the Caucasus and thus deny vital resources to the Russians, as well as closing the Volga to transportation. I read somewhere (probably Anthony Beevor's excellent book) that Moscow was considered both too difficult and too obvious a target following the initial failure to take it, and offensives north and south were planned instead.
As to invading Russia...it seems to be an inborn fault of expansive European military powers to believe that invading Russia is a good plan! In the unlikely event of success, it would have given Germany massive raw material resources, eventual manpower advantages and of course allowed them to fight on one front if America was still involved the European war.
I don't think it started out as such a vitally important target, it just gradually became one. Sometimes in history there are battles that start out minor and just suck more and more troops in, until it gets to the point where the strategic objective is lost sight of, and all that matters is winning the battle in hand, purely for the sake of it. And of course, Stalin-grad became an obsession for Hitler and Stalin purely because of its name.
As to why didn't the Germans see the Russian build up? Well, one must remember that recon flights in the depth of the Russian winter ain't easy. Its hard to maintain aircraft in -30 degrees weather, in the open. Not to mention the difficulty of spotting when the weather is bad. Furthermore all resources were being focussed on Stalingrad - attacking the Russians on the ground and in the air, and supplying the troops on the ground.
And you know what, even if they knew the Russians were threatening their flanks, what could the Germans do? The only tactical response available to the Germans was a withdrawal and an abandonment of the 6th Army. Politcally that was unacceptable.
As Matteus mentioned, I would seriously recommend Anthony Beevors excellent book Stalingrad for anyone interested in this pivotal battle of WW2, one of the most moving books I've read on war.
Mount is right! Sometimes you start a campaign and during it your strategic goals change. It is like Verdun. Germans attacked it because it was a national symbol. It had no military importance. They knew the French would defend it and wanted to kill as many as possible. They did not have the need to occupy it.
Thinks changed once the operation started. With all the newspapers and the public looking at it it was a question of honour.
Why did the Germans not spot the Russians. I think that has two main reasons. First, they could not believe that the Russians were able to start a counter strike. Resistance was low in the beginning of the 1942 campaign (most Soviet forces were gathered roung Moscow) and the German staff had the feeling that the Russians were finished.Then the Russians gave a desperate fight at Stalingrad. German had to pump in more reenforcements. Guess they thought the Russians would give all they have to hold the fort. Couldn't imagine that they do not throw everything at the fron immediately. So they were badly surprised that the Russians had a strong strategic reserve.
2nd reason was that the Germans did not believe that the Soviet Staff was able to do such a complex operation with independant tank units. The Soviets had learned a lot from the Germans and now they were ready to pay back!
Excellent point, attested to by all involved. sometimes they had to start bonfires under the aeroplane's nose for hours in advance of takeoff to warm the engines up!Quote:
As to why didn't the Germans see the Russian build up? Well, one must remember that recon flights in the depth of the Russian winter ain't easy. Its hard to maintain aircraft in -30 degrees weather, in the open. Not to mention the difficulty of spotting when the weather is bad.
Understandable, as German forces had at one point almost completely cleared the western bank of the Volga in Stalingrad, and Soviet Command allowed only enough reinforcements to trickle in the keep them from completing this. A masterly piece of deception by the Soviets.Quote:
and the German staff had the feeling that the Russians were finished.
I think it was partly what they call a 'schwerpunkt', a sudden focus of the overall strategic battle, which sometimes occurs for no sufficiently explicable (or deliberately intended) tactical reason.
Funnily enough Mount Suribachi, Beevor's book on the Spanish Civil War is one of the most unreadable books I've ever had a go at! very disappointing...
Its an excellent point about the Russians feeding into Stalingrad just enough troops to keep the Germans at bay. On a human level its a brutal way to treat the troops who were fighting to defend the city, but on the strategic level it was a masterstroke. It was a real double whammy - not only did it keep troops back for the counter-attack, it also deceived the Germans about the true strength of the Russian forces.
As for Beevor, when I see his "Berlin" on offer at my local bookshop I'll pick it up. They're forever having 3 for 2 offers, and they often have Stalingrad but never Berlin. GAH!
Good reference with Verdun. Yes, the Germans were trapped by their own propaganda. They claimed victory before the end, and in order to save their face, they had to take it.
Stalingrad gave to the Russian the concept of the Battle of Opportunity which will be their doctrine after Second World War.
A smaller but similar example could be the fight for the US Embassy in Saigon, military negligible, but important to retake because it was a territory of the USA.
Another aspect is that commanders in the field may have seen it coming, but the gentleman in overall charge since December 1941, replacing the dismissed Field Marshal von Brauchitsch, was an Uebermensch who thought that should his demands ever conflict with reality, it was reality's duty to give way. Which it did not.
The whole 'Verdun was a national symbol' story was actually invented after the battle, once the German attack stopped, mainly to explain why the French generals sent thousands of men to death for a city that was already razed to the ground.Quote:
Originally Posted by Franconicus
Before the battle, Verdun, as a fortified city, was a pain in the ass of the german army, nothing else. It was not considered as a symbol on either side, until both realised that they couldn't lose here.
I agree with many of the comments here.
I also second the recommendation for Beever's excellent and highly readable book Stalingrad.
Stalingrad wasn't the primary objective of the Germans that year anyhow. At first they had been tasked to attack their way to the Caucaus Mnts but as the Germans got near to Hitler tasked out a portion of the Army Group to take the heights above the Volga and after that was accomplished began sapping the army group of divisions which he sent to take Stalingrad. This resulted in the Germans not having enough troops for both their primary objective and seiging a city.
Also remeber that von Paulus wanted to break out to the west but Hitler refused one step back, partially because Georing told Hitler that he'd be able to supply the surrouned army from air which he was never able to do. Georing actually also contributed to the Russian defense by trying to level Stalingrad to the ground through airbombing and rubbling buildings makes urban terrain easier to defend and harder to attack for mechanized units.
I think the German Army saw Stalingrad and what was going to happen but Hitler had already gone crazy by then and destroyed the German offensive of 1942 through his own dabbling in the affairs of Generals. Damn Bohemian Corporal
I have not a great admiration of Hitler, his SS having done some “job” in the village I born, missing my grand-father by luck. Well, not for them, he was a partisan.
However, again the some song, Hitler did all the bad things and his general were right. His general promised Hitler they could take Moscow. His general promised Hitler they could take Stalingrad. For Hitler, Stalingrad wasn’t in the Plan, but the roads to oil fields of Baku were.
The Germans were not far to take Stalingrad. When they failed, they failed to report to Hitler that they under-estimated the Russians. Hitler didn’t decide to burn Stalingrad; it was the tactic of the army. Hitler didn’t decide to send armoured division and tanks in a town. And when the battle was lost, the Hungarian, Rumanian, German and Italian division annihilated r routed, how the VI Army could have withdraw? Not petrol, no munitions, people dying every day of starvation, in the open plains of Russian, followed by the T34 and all the Siberian Units in skis.
Stalingrad was an important position on the Volga, a port. By this port, supplies were dispatched, coming from the Black Sea, plus few factories producing tanks (Red October). It was not a fight for symbol. Stalin showed to be a pragmatic man during the Revolution and WW2. He would have abandoned Stalingrad if needed, even Moscow.
For the same reasons, the German wanted Stalingrad. The thought a final push, few meters more and we can do it. Certainly the name of the town gave more resonances to the battle, but it wasn’t the main problem.
By the way, happily the Germans lost the war. Because with them, the Nazi did too.