Total Realism or Europa Barbarorum

I have been playing Rome: Total Realism for a while (very good game by the way, well done to the moders) and decided to play some other mods I am currently downloading Europa Barbarorum (12% at the moment) and thought id ask to all those people who have played both which do you think is better.

It's been my experience that direct comparison between two mods is often not beneficial and can often lead to unpleasantness. As with many things, 'better' is a matter of personal preference and not an absolute term. Remember also that EB is currently in an Open Beta phase (though I understand a patch is on the way) and that it was released in order to allow a wider community help with bug-hunting and so forth.

If people wish to share actual personal experiences of either mod then they may do so - undue or unsupported criticism of either mod, bearing in mind both teams stated intentions and stage of development, would not be appropriate.

And let us recall that we all work on and develop mods for nothing - so all would be well-advised to maintain a level head and focus on the positive.

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Originally Posted by Epistolary Richard

Remember also that EB is currently in an Open Beta phase (though I understand a patch is on the way) and that it was released in order to allow a wider community help with bug-hunting and so forth.

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Translation = RTR is better. :P

I kid I kid.


I agree with Richard. These sort of threads never lead anywhere positive.

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Originally Posted by caius britannicus

Translation = RTR is better. :P

I kid I kid.

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Oh, what a card you are, caius. :laugh4:

BTW, when will I be able to launch my first Crusade? Your screenshots excite me near beyond endurance.

well without going terribly off topic (and seeing as a mod already has) I do my best to answer. Hopefully by the end of april. Things are moving nicely.

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Originally Posted by caius britannicus

well without going terribly off topic (and seeing as a mod already has) I do my best to answer. Hopefully by the end of april. Things are moving nicely.

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:medievalcheers:

EB of course ...

This is a comparison of RTR 6.0 (not Gold) and the EB beta that I posted some time back on the EB forum:

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Originally Posted by Simon Appleton

For what it is worth, my impression so far is that the mods have a very similar underlying philosophy. They aim at making RTW more realistic, both by altering the content (maps, units etc) and the combat system (kill speeds, morale levels, balance of arms etc). In this, I think they both succeed very well. I've played both and greatly admire them for this. The units look great and the combat feels "right", as well as having the more deliberate feel of the combat I enjoyed in STW and MTW.

My impression so far is that EB has more historical research and work so that it deviates rather more from vanilla than RTR. However, RTR is still in progression. For example, RTR 6.2 has done a lot of work on the Romans and Germans, but the Gauls for one could use a little more love and will apparently get that in 7.0.

In terms of the combat system, they use different ways of getting there but I have found RTR 6.0 and EB rather similar in terms of how long heavy infantry melees last and how effective missiles are etc. If anything I'd say cavalry is rather more powerful (and relatively cheaper) in EB than RTR 6.0 but I am happy with either representation. My impression is that move speeds are slower in RTR, but as lover of the pause key, I like EBs speeds.

Both mods also aim to restrict or slow the recruitment of units outside of your factions natural "homelands". Again, they have different ways of doing this but they both work to a similar effect and add to the game's realism, and difficulty level. They also do some other stuff to raise the challenge - e.g. making the economy tighter and giving the player's general's less command stars.

Both mods alter naval combat to make it better. In RTR 6.0, tweaking the stats has made naval combat more bloody and decisive. In EB, fleets are very expensive and so again the combat is more decisive. Different means, similar result. I guess that's a theme of this comparison?

The mods have rather different campaign maps. IIRC, RTR took the area covered by the vanilla map and increased the number of provinces. My impression is that EB has a roughly similar number of provinces in the original RTW area but has extended the map south and especially east. Again, different approaches but similar result - a bigger sandpit to play in!

Both mods have unified the Romans and dropped the Senate (reviewer sheds a quick tear at the loss of the fun Senate missions). They have rather different faction line ups - they both represent the "big players" of the period but, if you want to play the ancient Britons, don't play RTR. If you want to play the Numidians, don't play EB. etc

EB have done some very fun things with the trait system and related stuff. Some generals can compete in the Olympics, others get triumphs etc. Some factions don't even have offspring anymore but choose generals through a "man of the hour". RTR seems more like vanilla in these respects, IIRC. On a related point, EB have changed the faction victory conditions whereas RTR still requires "conquer 50 provinces" (making playing the 40 province Seleucids rather a short game).

Finally, EB is a beta whereas RTR is a more finished product that has been patched many times. I can't recall encountering a CTD in RTR (well, I lie - I think it was in 6.0 - I won as Rome and was rewarded with a CTD! anti-climatic at the time but at least, I'd finished my campaign). However, I am getting daily or more crashes with EB (I'm around 243 BC in my Roman game). I can work around them, but it is taking a lot of willpower to keep playing. There are also other aspects of EB that seem frustrating because it is a beta - for example, AI bribery of my towns is making my game not fun (taking a city once is fine, but having to keep retaking it due to some diplomat is not so great).

Bottomline - I think they are both amazing mods. Incredibly ambitious and with ambitions that perfectly suit my tilt. They are both massive endeavours, involving many people and changing RTW in a myriad of ways. They transform RTW from an ultimately unchallenging and occasionally annoyingly ahistorical strategy game into a serious historical wargame that is fun to play. To some extent, they are the Pepsi and Coke of RTW mods - they are really remarkable similar. If forced to identify differences, at the moment, I would say RTR is more polished and playable whereas EB is more ambitious and promising. But I don't wish to offend either team, whose works have given me a lot of pleasure now and will continue to do so in the future.

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Some of the above may have changed with RTR 6.0 Gold (certainly the battle movement speeds seem brisker now; the morale levels also seems sky high). I've played an awful lot of RTR and like it better than any vanilla total war game (even MTW). I'm also really looking forward to get back to EB after the first patch - if I can avoid the CTDs that plagued me, the potential is amazing. With RTR 7.0 also on the horizon, we have an embarassment of riches.

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Originally Posted by Epistolary Richard

It's been my experience that direct comparison between two mods is often not beneficial and can often lead to unpleasantness.

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:oops:
I certainly didn’t want unpleasantness, I just wanted personal experiences.

If you're downloading EB now to try, be aware that very very soon we will have a patch for the build. It will dramatically cut down on ctd's and other unpleasentness. So be sure to check back and get the patch as soon as we post it.

caius - you had me going for a split second too. :grin: Gotta say that I'm loving those shields for the crusade units too. Some of the best shields I've seen anywhere.

Just a quick question what are ctd's

Crash To Desktop

Crash To Desktop's :2thumbsup:
EDIT: I see lusted got there first lol

Well, I'm not going to say I prefer either one.

RTR is more polished, indesputably, but notably less ambitious in scope than EB. Unfortunately, EB is plagued by various problems and quirks, some due to its status as beta, and others due to shortsightedness in design. It's also almost TOO historical, (e.g. meaningless unit names).

All in all, I play regular ol' BI a lot more than either.

^^^^^
What Richard said.

EB is still in the beta phase, and as such it still has bugs in numerous areas. It has huge potential though. Once most of those are sorted out I believe EB will be better.

EB is a major overhaul of RTW, much more so then RTR, so much that I think it will be overwhelming for mainstream gamers. In my opinion RTR is everything Rome: Total War should have been when I bought it, and more. EB is something radically different, awesome in its own right.

But since by now you'll have EB on your hard drive, just try it out and form your own judgement.

If you want a much more immersive RTW, EB is the way to go, especially when the next patch comes out, your experience won't be hindered as much. RTR is a certainly fun, and a little more light hearted than EB (Consider it EB Light), but still a vast improvement over Vanilla IMO.

Comparing EB to RTR is like comparing two similar kinds of beer, I prefer a darker full Bodied Flavour myself so I go with EB, but some people like it watered down...

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Originally Posted by Wakizashi

Comparing EB to RTR is like comparing two similar kinds of beer, I prefer a darker full Bodied Flavour myself so I go with EB, but some people like it watered down...

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A little bit of absinthe (read: Vanilla/BI) is all I need.

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Originally Posted by HalfThere

A little bit of absinthe (read: Vanilla/BI) is all I need.

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Ah. So that's what all those sparkles are! :laugh4:

Well I’ve been playing EB for about a day now I must say initially I was overwhelmed :dizzy2: there are loads of troops and even more buildings to understand, but I would say its very good.

Mr Appleton put it very well imo.

EB can take a while to get into or adjust to. I say that because it has much more historical information in it than any other mod to this date. I'm not saying that it makes it superior or worse because of that, it is personal preference. Just recently, a patch was released for EB so it is much more stable now, although it is still a beta and crashes do still occur. The scripted events in EB add more immersiveness to the game too. RTR is definitely a much more polished game and this stage, and I didn't encounter any CTDs while I was playing it. Anyways, I have played RTR and EB and I think that if you can, you should try them both as well. I mean, why settle for one when you can have two?

LE

its bloody good i tell u.
enjoy.