Fixing STW/MI v1.02

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Just A Girl

But if its beta. its not official. so does that mean i can play with that?

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No it doesn't. It's not necessary to do that anyway. You can do everything that's needed with the two stat files. You can set the morale on units so that you can play at low money which minimizes the amount of upgrades. All you have to do is decide what kind of gameplay you want.

I would put all the unit stats back to their STW v1.12 values, and work from there. That will restore the infantry tactics because right now in v1.02 the infantry moves too slow relative to the fighting speed.

-----------------
Troopstats.txt
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Projectile type: NONE = 0, LONG = 1, MTLG = 2, ARQB = 3, MSKT = 4, NINJ = 5
Unroutable: true = 1, false = 0
Marching speed: 1 - 24
Running speed: 1 - 24
Charging speed: 1 - 24
Minimum turning speed: 2 - 8
Maximum turning speed: 2 - 8
Max turning angle whilst in motion: 8 - 256
Speed at which soldier turns towards the direction of motion 8 - 8
Space between neighbours left and right: 30 - 125
Space between neighbours back and front: 30 - 125
Enemy engagement proximity threshold: 500 - 2000
Charge bonus: -6 - 12
Melee bonus: -6 - 12
Defence bonus: -6 - 12
Armour level: 1 - 12
Honour level: -4 - 8
Ammo ( arrows or bullets ): 0 - 255
Unit size (based on 60)


SamuraiArchers
{
1, 1, 6, 10, 10, 2, 8, 8, 256, 75, 75, 500, 2, 0, 0, 1, 0, 28, 60
}

YariSamurai
{
0, 1, 6, 10, 10, 2, 8, 8, 256, 75, 75, 1500, 0, 0, 2, 3, 2, 0, 60
}

Naginata
{
0, 1, 4, 8, 8, 2, 8, 8, 256, 75, 75, 1500, 4, 0, 6, 5, 4, 0, 60
}

Nodachi
{
0, 1, 7, 12, 12, 2, 8, 8, 192, 75, 75, 1500, 8, 5, -2, 1, 8, 0, 60
}

CavalryArchers
{
2, 1, 8, 20, 20, 2, 8, 8, 64, 115, 125, 500, 3, 1, 2, 3, 0, 28, 60
}

HeavyCavalry
{
0, 1, 8, 20, 20, 2, 8, 8, 8, 115, 125, 1500, 5, 2, 6, 5, 4, 0, 60
}

YariCavalry
{
0, 1, 10, 24, 24, 2, 8, 8, 8, 115, 125, 1500, 8, 2, 3, 3, 2, 0, 60
}

YariAshigaru
{
0, 0, 7, 12, 12, 2, 8, 8, 96, 75, 75, 1500, 0, -1, -1, 2, -4, 0, 60
}

Phantoms
{
0, 0, 7, 12, 12, 2, 8, 8, 96, 75, 75, 1500, 0, -1, -1, 2, -4, 0, 1
}

Arquebusier
{
3, 0, 7, 12, 12, 2, 8, 8, 128, 75, 75, 500, 0, -6, -3, 2, -4, 40, 60
}

Musketeer
{
4, 0, 7, 12, 12, 2, 8, 8, 192, 75, 75, 500, 0, -6, -3, 2, -4, 40, 60
}

WarriorMonk
{
0, 1, 7, 12, 12, 2, 8, 8, 256, 75, 75, 1500, 4, 5, 2, 1, 8, 0, 60
}

A_Ninja
{
5, 1, 8, 18, 18, 2, 8, 8, 256, 75, 75, 300, 4, 8, 4, 4, 8, 100, 12
}

A_SwordsMan
{
0, 1, 10, 16, 16, 0, 8, 8, 256, 75, 75, 2000, 8, 18, 2, 8, 8, 0, 1
}

A_Mongol_Javelin_Thrower
{
6, 0, 7, 12, 12, 2, 8, 8, 192, 75, 75, 400, 0, 0, 0, 5, 0, 4, 60
}

A_Mongol_Spearman
{
0, 0, 6, 10, 12, 2, 8, 8, 256, 75, 75, 1500, 0, 0, 1, 2, -1, 0, 60
}

A_Mongol_Polearmsman
{
0, 0, 5, 8, 10, 2, 8, 8, 256, 75, 75, 1500, 4, 2, 4, 4, 0, 0, 60
}

A_Grenadier
{
7, 0, 6, 8, 10, 2, 8, 8, 256,100,100, 100, 0,-6, -3, 2, 4, 3, 20
}

An_Ashigaru_Xbowman
{
8, 0, 7, 12, 12, 2, 8, 8, 96, 75, 75, 500, 0, -6, -3, 1, -5, 16, 60
}

A_Nijinata_Cavaleryman
{
0, 1, 8, 16, 20, 2, 8 , 8, 8,115,125, 1500, 4, 5, 2, 4, 8, 0, 60
}

A_Mongol_Light_Cavaleryman
{
2, 0, 10 ,26, 26, 2, 8, 8, 128,125,140, 1500, 4, 2, 2, 4, 4, 28, 60
}

A_Mongol_Heavy_Cavaleryman
{
0, 0, 10,20, 24, 2, 8, 8, 128,125,140, 1500, 6, 4, 4, 5, 8, 0, 60
}


-----------------
Projectiles.txt
-----------------

Projectile-type related stats:-

Length, Frequency, Range, Speed, Accuracy, Power, Reload, Is a gun?, Is Waterproof?

Longbow
{
25, 11, 5000, 150, 0.6, 0.5, 4, 0, 1
}

Mounted Longbow
{
25, 11, 5000, 150, 0.4, 0.5, 4, 0, 1
}

Arquebus
{
0, 15, 4000, 200, 0.07, 4.0, 30, 1, 0
}

Musket
{
0, 15, 5000, 250, 0.12, 4.0, 21, 1, 0
}

Ninja Star
{
0, 5, 1200, 100, 0.5, 1.0, 3, 0, 1
}

Javelin
{
0, 5, 1500, 90, 0.15, 2.0, 3, 0, 1
}

Grenade
{
0, 5, 1300, 80, 0.03, 6.0, 6, 0, 0
}

Crossbow
{
10, 5, 4000, 250, 0.15, 3.0, 15, 0, 1
}



The cost of warrior monks was raised in STW/MI from 500 koku to 550 koku. This solves the monk rush problem of STW v1.12, so you don't have to worry about fixing that.

You could give HC a bit more offensive punch by shifting a combat point from defense to melee making it a 3/5 (melee/defend) instead of the original 2/6.

Overall you could increase cavalry charge values by a couple of points if you want more effective cavalry. An increase of 4 charge points is roughly equivalent to an increase of 1 melee point which is a 20% increase in combat effectiveness.

The new MI units for the Sengoku period, kensai, ninja and naginata cavalry are a problem. Keep in mind that these new units were not balanced by the same programmer who did the original STW units, and it's easy to see that they were not integrated into the original units very well. The boosting of the power of guns to 16 is a dead giveaway that whoever implimented the stats didn't understand the system because values of power higher than 8 provide no additional effectiveness.

The NC is easiest to solve because the problem is that it's a WM stat unit with higher mobility and armor that only costs 450 koku. The cost is about 20% less than a WM, so that would translate into removal of 1 combat point making it a 4/2 (melee/defend) rather than 5/2. The value of the mobility and armor is harder to assess, but I would say take away another combat point making it a 3/2 , increase running speed from 16 to 20 and increase charge from 4 to 6.

The kensai and ninja are much harder to adjust since their small size and high melee capability gives them large battlefield upgrade possibilities. The kensai could be given less armor to make him more vulnerable to range fire and some of his combat power could be shifted from melee to defend. His running and charging speed should probably be lowered as well. The ninja should probably have less but more effective stars, and its running and charging speed should definitley be lowered from 18 to more like 12.

The YS with its 2 combat points + 8 point anti-cav bonus has the potential to beat all cavalry. However, it's lacking in enough moral to allow it to stand and fight in many situations. I would raise morale from 2 to 4 on YS, and see if that's enough for the unit to operate without upgrades or just one honor upgrade.

The YA gets those very cheap weapon and armor upgrades. I would at least lower the melee/defend from -1/-1 to -2/-2, and see how that works. This would mean 3 honor upgrades, making the unit cost 275 koku, would be necessary for the unit to be combat equivalent to a YS. If you are going to play at koku levels that allow for more upgrades, then the morale of the YA should probably be reduced from -4 to -6.

The muskets could be made to fire in rain if that's what you want. Their defend value should definitely be reduced from -3 to -6. They could also be made more effective by increasing the accuracy. An increase from 0.12 to 0.16 will make them 1.5 times more effective. You could go up more than that if you want, but cavalry will then have difficulty charging muskets, and the gameplay becomes more and more a shooting game the higher you go. I also feel that ammo should be reduced significantly so that conservation of ammunition becomes a consideration. A reduction from 40 ammo to 20 ammo might be enough to accomplish this. Reload is 21 seconds in the stat I posted which is the original reload speed. It was increased to 24 seconds in v1.02. Longer reloads mean a volley can be made more effective and you don't need as much ammo.

The arques should follow the same kind of changes you make to the muskets.

The Mongol era units are very difficult to balance due to the extreme pricing of some of the units. It's a longer term project requiring a lot of testing.

I Was thinking of tampering with unit costs, more than there stats.
I cant confess to be the best at balancing the game by playing with unit stats.

but i may have been able to change the hard coded unit costs. Which i believe is a bit of a problem... (If i need to ask for permission to try do i ask, ea, ca , or sold out games?)
It seems. like im not allowed to do that.
which is somehwat of a shame.

if i raized the YA base cost slightly. reduced their mele efective ness but raised there base honour.
(on a trial and error basis) Prehaps they could be used again without them becoming super ashi's.

i dont have 2 much of a problem with the muskets, But i do use them at h0.
which allows me to spend a few hundered koku on other units.
(i believe that h0 muskets are good and every 1 should use them at h0)

But at the end of the day i must admit i did like the origional stats in stw.

(when i 1st stumbeld in to my foyer, Toga was there)
And he had the updated shogun.
I had been playing without an update untill then.

and didnt particularly like the stats when i was playing.
I did get used to them though and I kind of enjoy them.

The muskets now force me to try and get round on their sides.
as aposed to charging head on in to them.

So i kind of like that..
(ive seen the last samurai.. they didnt try to go round the side, and they didnt get far)

Last time i tried balancing the game..

I decided cav archers should have 3 feet more range than archers. due to cav archers being higher off the floor.
I also decided cav archers needed to loose a little accuracy.

People did not aproove of that, even before i started.

and Sasaki Kojiro Came in to the foyer to whoop my ass becous i said i was about to do so.

So i dunno. Maby i should stick to my strengths.
And aparantly Balancing units is not one of my strengths.

The Sengoku Period unit costs are balanced quite well. The YA cost 100 koku and wasn't a problem in STW v1.12. It's STW/MI that caused the problem with its incorrectly calculated weapon and armor costs. If you played without weapon and armor upgrades, you'd have a better game. In anycase, CA will never give permission to alter the main exe.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Just a Girl

(ive seen the last samurai.. they didnt try to go round the side, and they didnt get far)

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Last Samurai takes place in the 1860's. STW is set in the mid 1500's. That's 300 years earlier, and guns were a lot less effective.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Just a Girl

The muskets now force me to try and get round on their sides as opposed to charging head on into them.

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Well the gameplay was never supposed to be like that. None of the players who were on the v1.02 beta team wanted that, and none of the players in the community wanted that. There was a mass exodus of players (70% quit) as a result. The gameplay was supposed to be that you have to protect guns from cavalry.

If you look at the Battle of Nagashino (1575) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Nagashino you see that Nobunaga put his guns behind wooden palisades, protected his guns with spears and swords and provoked the Takeda cavalry to charge across a stream and up a steep embankment. He had 3 gunners for every 4 Takeda cavalrymen. That's close to a 1:1 ratio.

Now go to STW/MI and the ironing board map. There is no way an unprotected 60 man gun unit without palisades would be able to stop a 60 man cavalry unit charging across flat, unobstruced ground. The gun unit would be decimated. It wouldn't even be close.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Just a Girl

I decided cav archers should have 3 feet more range than archers. due to cav archers being higher off the floor.
I also decided cav archers needed to loose a little accuracy.

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Cav archers already have less accuracy than foot archers. It's also detrimental to gameplay to give a faster units more range than slower foot units. It basically makes the unit invulnerable. If you do the physics, the slight elevation of the cav archer is insignificant in terms of increasing range. We also experimented with longer ranges, and it didn't make the game play better. It just turned it into a shooting game. The range of 5000 was well chosen by LongJohn.