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Wondering if folks have had any notable success or any more notable disasters when campaigning outside their own territory now. I tend to be much more conservative with the changes we've made on the patch and I was wondering if it was very noticeable to other folks now too.
Originally Posted by Teleklos Archelaou:
I've had my own little "Social War" a few centuries early so my expansion has been slowed a bit. I've also only recently got the finances and the right commander to support a second field force, which I assume will make my rate of expansion increase.
Wondering if folks have had any notable success or any more notable disasters when campaigning outside their own territory now. I tend to be much more conservative with the changes we've made on the patch and I was wondering if it was very noticeable to other folks now too.
Now that Italy is mine I am going to move into Sicily, start a (hopefully) short war with Carthage and pick up Lilbeo + Sardinia and Corsica, then replenish my field forces and move against the Hellenes, then the Epeirotes, then the Makedonians.
However! I figure my Princeps might have different ideas now that he has become a Vanquisher of Gauls in taking Medilanum; he might hare off across the Alps in search of Imperatorial acclaim. :)
I was thinking more along the lines of finding the right commanders to campaign in enemy territory. Namely those guys who have the skills to keep supply lines moving and understand things like logistics. They make a really big difference if you are going to campaign outside your lands. Otherwise your troops will moan and groan and not fight very well if you have someone leading them who's not capable of taking care of them far from home.
Originally Posted by Teleklos Archelaou:
I've been fighting 'quick' wars, and then returning to a depot-province to replenish my losses which means this is not too much of a problem for me. I have been trying to train my commanders to be fast, rather than to be good at logistics although I have been thinking I should see if stretching their supply lines a bit more 'exercises' their capacity for logistical organisation.
I was thinking more along the lines of finding the right commanders to campaign in enemy territory.
The main change for me is that I tend to try and fill a city with spies before I attack it so that I can have the gates just swing open for me.
Is there a way to actually 'train' generals to be logistically sound? In my first 20 years so far, I've had supply lines cut every time I wandered into enemy territory. Didn't know there was even a trait to make that not happen. (Not to mention I didn't know there was an "exterminated own people" trait... God that set my leader back... nice surprise though :2thumbsup: )
Originally Posted by Wonderland:
You're "liberating" these allied cities from oppressors, you're not supposed to be slaughtering them yourself! :laugh4:
Is there a way to actually 'train' generals to be logistically sound? In my first 20 years so far, I've had supply lines cut every time I wandered into enemy territory. Didn't know there was even a trait to make that not happen. (Not to mention I didn't know there was an "exterminated own people" trait... God that set my leader back... nice surprise though :2thumbsup: )
To "train" your general to be better at logistics, there are several ways:
- If he has 3 scrolls or better in Management, just moving a lot can teach him logistics (using up nearly all his movement points).
- training in a settlement with a Ludus Magnus building or better (the 2nd level of the academy)
- certain ancillaries teach the general, like the desert scout, geographer, or carnute.
Originally Posted by Malrubius:
This kind of information is very useful, thanks. :2thumbsup:
To "train" your general to be better at logistics, there are several ways:
- If he has 3 scrolls or better in Management, just moving a lot can teach him logistics (using up nearly all his movement points).
- training in a settlement with a Ludus Magnus building or better (the 2nd level of the academy)
- certain ancillaries teach the general, like the desert scout, geographer, or carnute.
If there is lots of stuff going on under the hood of EB, like with the new traits and scripts, it is very useful for players to know what strategies it opens up. Otherwise, if we are ignorant of the opportunities the new system opens up, stuff will just happens to us and may add to the experience ("my army just lost its supply train!"), but not to the gameplay ("maybe I should assign the a geographer to the campaign?").
For example, being used to vanilla RTW, I'd never think that 3+ management makes someone a potentially better campaigner (in vanilla, it's a sign to stick him in a town as governor) and I'd also be sceptical of the benefits of the Ludus Magna (which AFAIK gives you very little in vanilla).
At some stage, it would be good to have a guide to character development (or a link to one if it already exists). It's not a priority now in the beta stage, but would be nice later.
Originally Posted by Malrubius:
I uh.... Scyles did it! *runs away*
You're "liberating" these allied cities from oppressors, you're not supposed to be slaughtering them yourself! :laugh4:
Originally Posted by Malrubius:
Its a real pain when you have an Unselfish Warmonger - you want rivers of blood for him, but if you exterminate people then you run the risk of "side-effects"...
You're "liberating" these allied cities from oppressors, you're not supposed to be slaughtering them yourself! :laugh4:
It's very interesting trying to decide what to do.
The Brutal general is the one who likes to exterminate, enslave, chase routers, and raise taxes. The Warmonger likes to move around and fight battles (or at least train armies if he's stuck in a settlement). Slaughtering people is not what he enjoys. An unselfish warmonger would be happy with victories that don't get a lot of his men killed.
Originally Posted by Malrubius:
Now, are all these roleplaying tips for mental purposes, or are they actually represented by traits in the game? Either way, I love it. Also, when you say train armies when a general is stuck in a settlement, what exactly do you mean? There's a way to train armies under a general's command without engaging in battle?
The Brutal general is the one who likes to exterminate, enslave, chase routers, and raise taxes. The Warmonger likes to move around and fight battles (or at least train armies if he's stuck in a settlement). Slaughtering people is not what he enjoys. An unselfish warmonger would be happy with victories that don't get a lot of his men killed.
And I can't help but notice your trait progress-o-meter is only at 55%... is this to say that there is still 45% of material to be added to the already amazing traits system? If so, you can give me the 'Extatic about new traits' trait. +10 moral, -10 squalor.
I love you Malrubius. In a totally gay way.
Originally Posted by Malrubius:
I guess my "Sated" coinciding with my extermination of a large city had more to do with the battle than with the extermination then.
The Brutal general is the one who likes to exterminate, enslave, chase routers, and raise taxes. The Warmonger likes to move around and fight battles (or at least train armies if he's stuck in a settlement). Slaughtering people is not what he enjoys. An unselfish warmonger would be happy with victories that don't get a lot of his men killed.
Thanks for the clarification!
Originally Posted by Wonderland:
I've got several of these traits in my Roman campaigns so far (Cotta became a Warmonger and Sated himself on the Epeirotes and Sparte). It's actually been pretty fun, since in my 0.7.3 campaign Cotta has taken an entirely different path and become a gloomy provincial governer instead of a brilliant general.
Now, are all these roleplaying tips for mental purposes, or are they actually represented by traits in the game? Either way, I love it. Also, when you say train armies when a general is stuck in a settlement, what exactly do you mean? There's a way to train armies under a general's command without engaging in battle.
Cotta has become an 'attuned governor' in Rhegion now, making its people Extremely Happy.
So far I've had some nice successes out afield, defeating the combined Qarthadastim navy (the western Mediterranean is now Mare Nostrum) and smashing nearly 75% of the EPeirote armed forces on the borders of Kalabria in one splendid battle, in which the peltastai gave me much headache since they held off my 'battle-winning' flank attacks until the central phalanx gave way first. =_=
I began a war with Carthage in the 3rd turn, and swept them out of Sicily within 4 turns. It is now 262BC and I have run through a blitzkrieg that has deprived the Carthaginians of Corsica and Sardinia. One remarkable success I had was when I took Dalminion, with its 3 mines (MONEY! MONEY!) with one 'consular' army, i.e. one hastati, one principes, one triarii, one general, and one equites. The gaeroas inside swarmed me the moment I entered, and i lost many men, but it was worth the cost, and the rout was sudden and complete beyondmy wildest dreams.
Is the "counqueror-trait" gone? Don´t seem to get it anymore.
@TA,
To answer your initial Q: Yes a "well supplied" general works great. The problem is though that my generals seems to pick up negative movement traits 8 out of 10 times.
No, I've never had any success campaigning outside my own territory. My supply line always breaks and my men are always starving. :( I think I must be having a bad run of luck when it comes to getting the "Logistics" trait.
On the plus side, they've become especially adept at living off the moss found on rocks.
I Just hate that my best generals always seem to get Lover of beauty trait and lose one of the hard to earn command stars :furious3:
Those romans are way to arty.....and the Seleucids as well.....
Lover of beauty....what next? appriciate beauty, flower arranging or master of tea ceremony sheeesh
With Macedon, all my family members like to drink ... a lot. My main general has a trait that he likes to drink with his men after each vitctory, and defeat, and draw. The men like him ... so he's my faction heir now. He's also a one-eyed expert scout (I have no idea how that works, he got expert scout after he lost his eye).
Originally Posted by NightStar:
I'm also not sure why liking frowning busts of grumpy old relatives is going to cause you a lot of command problems anyway - it's not as if the family member takes a break to pick up a BA in Art History or anything.
I Just hate that my best generals always seem to get Lover of beauty trait and lose one of the hard to earn command stars :furious3:
Those romans are way to arty.....and the Seleucids as well.....
Lover of beauty....what next? appriciate beauty, flower arranging or master of tea ceremony sheeesh
I seem to pick up a hell of a lot of logographoi as the Romans too, and I thought that these chaps might be supposed to be exclusively Hellenistic?
Originally Posted by Keba:
Drinking is the Macedonian way. :2thumbsup:
With Macedon, all my family members like to drink ... a lot. My main general has a trait that he likes to drink with his men after each vitctory, and defeat, and draw. The men like him ... so he's my faction heir now..
Playing as Ton Koinon Hellenon, VH/H: by 242 BC have now consolidated all of modern Greece, Albania, Bulgaria,Crete and all of former Yugoslavia (except Segestica), as well as Mytilene, Rhodes, Halikarnassos, Byzantion and besieging Nikomedia (belongs to Pontos). Asia Minor is a threeway between Pontos, Ptolomies and Seleukids with the Selueks losing fast. The Getae have all of modern Romania and so far are holding to our alliance (just a matter of time, though...).
The point is I have no interest in expanding east or following in Alexander's footsteps, but that's where all my expansion resources are. For me the game is not about repeating history but in alternatives- so I want to expand a Greek Empire north to the Baltic, following the amber route (jaysus that's a great touch guys!) and conquer the Bosporus and modern Ukraine, Poland, Lithuania etc. That will mean substantial campaigning outside of my type 1&2 government area- there's already a problem in Naissus- I can't recruit anything there except agents. I guess I'll have to develop the Balkan coast of the Adriatic and jump off from there- blindside the Getae from the west as it were. I have had zero supply problems so far, but most of my movement is done on interior lines through heavily developed Macedon and Thessaly. The biggest problem that I have is my populations are getting too big which actually drops incomes in cities. I'll have to see what happens as I move north- I wish the was a possibility to move population out of big cities into newly-conquered towns.
Strategically the AI is much much better- I have even had to fight off amphibious invasions of Rhodes! They're still hopeless on the battlefield though.
As Baktria, recently invaded Taxila. My faction leader, who I had been training for movement by using up most of this points and who had the desert scout, led the invasion. After the first turn in, he keeps well-supplied, after the second turn that goes away.
He didn't pick up a negative trait until after the fifth or sixth turn (don't quite recall which turn), it was "rationing," and by that time I was fighting a massive battle for the city (the general unit had over 40 elephants...imagine that crashing into your phalanx).
So basically, I like the campaigning traits, though I'm wondering if the generals in the later game will get good enough stats to be trainable, or if I'll just love supply lines immediately.
I also really like the attuned governor trait. But here's a question: if his city gets besieged by a rebel force, and I try to sally, and the rebel force backs away, can I take him out of the city to attack, so long as I get him back into the city by the end of the turn?