RTW Has anybody tried this tactic?

When I was playing the Seleucids and out of no where the Pontics and Armenians attack me.
I was getting tired of losing Cretian archers and Rhodian slingers to cavalry who got around my phalanx.
I know this can be countered by my cavalry but at the start of the campaign, I'm a bit tight on cash. And I using my cavalry to do the close hand fighting at the start.
So I started trying this tactic.
I get my phalanx units form a square, 2 units minimum at each side. All the phalanx units work with this, but I recommend at least Levy pikemen. Place the missile units inside. This works great in easy, fairly well in both medium and hard.
I kill alot cavalry with this tactic.

I've never tried that tactic personally, but from what I read about this and that the square formation was fairly common anti-cavalry tactic employed by infantry in open areas. Carrhae (where the square didn't prevent the Romans from losing) and Waterloo are the two battles that come to mind whenever I think of squares.

Using any ancient army...especially the Phalanx based ones, I use the Hammer and Anvil Tactic. Always seems to work wonders against the AI. Countering the Parthians can be a bit trickier though.

Its about not presenting a phalanx flank to an enemy. ? Buildings, big rocks, another phalanx, edge of the map. All would work.

I prefer taking battle to the enemy using cavalary and ranged missiles. My foot soldiers get very little action. (Roman factions...RTW V1.5)

Not played as a Hoplite faction. Last Hoplite I had was a mercenary. Got completely wiped out by an AI general in street fighting. Was nicely formed and the general kept his distance. I asked my Hoplites to advance...instead of a nice moving line it was chaos. The phalanx was broken. Seconds later the general charged and my Mercenaries were slaughtered. :no:

I am about to wipe out Greek faction so should have the choice of playing as them in my next campaign. Will have to get Phalanx movement right then.:book: Or I can just hire Archers, Slingers and Militia Cav and do as I do with Romans.

Phalanxes are hard to use, especially when you previously played with a Roman faction.
A good strategy which I got from my MTW experience was hiring non-phalanx spear units to protect the ends of the phalanx line. Those spears can move about faster and are less vulnerable to flank attacks.

I've tried a similar formation, and it worked quite well. I also had 3 cavalry units in the rear, though.

EDIT- Oh, and this formation's weakness is cavalry archers that have long range missiles.

Yeah quite a few people do this online (gah, annoying! :P), especially in team games where you can merge multiple armies together. You can beat it by focusing on purely one area of the square, when that part of box is crumbling the guy has to dismantle the box to reinforce the area that's crumbling, then the box is has holes and cavalry and such can thrust through holes into the backs of phalanxes.

But versus AI, it's harder to lose with the box formation than to win with it ;)

I would not suggest using this tactic in multiplayer unless you say no artillery or load up on artillery yourself. If you are that tightly packed together artillery will tear your formation apart.

I never tried it, but it sounds sensible. Surely the weak points are the corners, as four units must be revealing their flanks? The AI can be pretty ruthless in zeroing in on slightly exposed flanks.

Incidentally, the weak point of historical squares (e.g. Napoleonic and thereabouts) was also the corners. I think the British used to bolster them with artillery and later machine guns in some late Nineteenth Century wars in the Sudan etc.

A good way to strengthen the corners is to not make a square. A more rounded shape will take more units, but it's corners are much less exposed. If you are truly desperate to strengthen them yuo could slap a phalanx on the corner though, just make sure it doesn't hang out too much.

This may take too many troops though...

A half-hexagon shape will work almost as well, and it requires way less phalanx troops (eight is a good number, four for the frontline and two for each of the sides - one per side is too few, they´re not strong enough to deter flanking attempts; and you want a long frontline to have enough of protected space within) than a fully closed sqare, leaving more places for archers.

It should work in some circumstances, but it could be very risky if confronted with missiles targeting the rear of units, certainly in MP.

I've used it with the Greeks... indeed sharp corners get tagged... good thing to have Armoured Hoplites on the corners and a reserve of Spartans to plug holes.

I got the idea from the British in the Battle of Waterloo just like Appleton mentioned.
I just real tried of losing mercs especially the Cretan Archers and Rhodian Slingers from Cavalry rushes.
I use the Infantry square to kill attack cavalry. I usually point the corner towards the enemy, plugging that corner with Phalanx pikemen and Silver Shield Pikeman. If the enemy's just sitting around, I send Militia cavalry or better yet Scythian mercs to get their attention. Then I try putting the square between them and my cavalry.

I this other tactic I've been itching to try.
:book:
I just started getting Cataphracts and Companion Cavalry. I noticed that Companion Cav have only 10 defence and I tend to lose a lot of them after a charge.
Since the Cataphracts have 23 D, I thought of using them as the charging cavalry instead. But got a lot of Companion Cav and I don't retire all of them because the make up a quarter of mt total cav in the map and they got better attack than the Cataphracts

So now I send the cataphracts for the first charge while the Companion and other cavalry I happened to have around attack from the enemy rear.
Is this a good idea?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wardruid

I got the idea from the British in the Battle of Waterloo just like Appleton mentioned.
I just real tried of losing mercs especially the Cretan Archers and Rhodian Slingers from Cavalry rushes.
I use the Infantry square to kill attack cavalry. I usually point the corner towards the enemy, plugging that corner with Phalanx pikemen and Silver Shield Pikeman. If the enemy's just sitting around, I send Militia cavalry or better yet Scythian mercs to get their attention. Then I try putting the square between them and my cavalry.

I this other tactic I've been itching to try.
:book:
I just started getting Cataphracts and Companion Cavalry. I noticed that Companion Cav have only 10 defence and I tend to lose a lot of them after a charge.
Since the Cataphracts have 23 D, I thought of using them as the charging cavalry instead. But got a lot of Companion Cav and I don't retire all of them because the make up a quarter of mt total cav in the map and they got better attack than the Cataphracts

So now I send the cataphracts for the first charge while the Companion and other cavalry I happened to have around attack from the enemy rear.
Is this a good idea?

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Well I dont really play rtw, more BI so this info applies to bi cataphracts, hopefully similiar to rtw ones. Cataphracts are slow and have a bad charge, they are really more for slogging it out in hand to hand than repeated charges. So it won't be the charge that really helps you, it'll be the overwhelming defence they have versus other units.

As a result you faster comp cav would be much better at swinging round rear as they can do it faster without being possibly intercepted, keep pulling them in/out of enemy rear and eventually enemy should route.

But light cav (Which is fast) do take many casualities even when charging from the rear.. Hence, the usefulness of catas..

i use it when surrounded. when the enemy attacks from 2 or more sides i dont have to worry about my flanks. it works good with all factions and units. roman legionaries are also very capable of doing so

Quote:

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Originally Posted by x-dANGEr

But light cav (Which is fast) do take many casualities even when charging from the rear.. Hence, the usefulness of catas..

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Yar, but comp cav are still heavy cav, just not as armoured IIRC.

Companion cav for a charge in the rear are awesome, their high attacks makes it up for their low (Relatively) defence.. Though, one charge and the unit is gone..

Catarchets are to slow for my taste i always feel like my enemy could flank and rout my entire force before my cateraphts could get around a flank, i do use them as roadblocks thou and then charge my companions into to the rear.