Smoking Ban

Well, The Smoking ban in enclosed public spaces is finally upon the Scots, and I didn't even have enough money for cognac and a cigar last night...

Since King James VI of Scotland and England wrote his little treatise on how bad smoking is, there has been an air of negativity around the smoker, and now those ministers in the parliament have banned smoking in pubs, clubs, restaurants, and other public places enclosed over 50%. My English teacher will take to calling the police when he catches pupils smoking in the toilets now, which shall be interesting...

Auntie Provides

Ho-hum...

~:smoking:

P.S. I might point out that I am not a smoker, and have only twice or thrice indulged in a cigar with cognac. However, my parents are smokers hence we shall be eating out somewhat less...

Your thoughts on the ban?

I just can't wait until the ban comes into force in England and Wales. Having someone smoking whilst you're trying to enjoy a meal out can be horrible, and it must be much, much worse on the staff working there.

We've had a ban in Ireland for a couple of years now, and it's bliss having a drink.

When I'm over in England, I really notice it now. I emerge stinking to high heaven, and cough for days after. I don't smoke at all, but after a few hours in a smoky pub I must get through the equivalent of a pack of ten.

it is already banned in england in restaurants but when is it going to be for pubs?

and it is something like it takes 5 or so hours in a smoke filled room to do the same damage to your system as 2 cigarettes... it isn't as bad as everyone thinks and i learnt this from a business studies teacher who was trying to teach us the advantages of having the tobacco industry and stuff so it might actually be false info or exagerated

There's a movement over here citing a ban on Smoking, I sincerely hope it pulls through, disgusting habit.

Good thing. I hate it when my clothes and hair stink of smoke once I get home.

I really wish that was effective here in the states. It is quite annoying when I'm trying to enjoy a meal in the non smoking section and all I can do is smell smoke from the guy puffing away on the other side of me.

The sooner it's here the better. In a pub twenty minutes after work and I stink. It's disgusting.

Was there not something about pub workers not being able to get life insurance because of the risks of the smoky environment?

Bad ban. Just because you find a habit disgusting, does not mean you should be able to ban in on another's property.

Crazed Rabbit

It's about the safety of the staff more than anything else. I view this ban in a similar light to proscriptions on factories having to use properly maintained machinery.

I agree with the ban in ordinary restaurants and pubs, but not in private clubs for clubs. I see no harm in a place where all the customers and staff are smokers.
Though I find it ironic how cannabis and other such substances are being increasingly legalised, yet smoking is on its path to being banned.

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It's about the safety of the staff more than anything else. I view this ban in a similar light to proscriptions on factories having to use properly maintained machinery.

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Noone's forcing the staff to work there, and they know that there will be smoking.

Crazed Rabbit

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

Bad ban. Just because you find a habit disgusting, does not mean you should be able to ban in on another's property.

Crazed Rabbit

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What? So I should be able to cover everyone else around me in highly carcinagenic ooze because I enjoy it? It's be banned immediately.

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Noone's forcing the staff to work there

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No-one's forcing the staff to work in the (hypothetical) horribly dangerous factories, either.

Do you think we should repeal all industrial safety laws?

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Originally Posted by Big King Sanctaphrax

No-one's forcing the staff to work in the (hypothetical) horribly dangerous factories, either.

Do you think we should repeal all industrial safety laws?

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Please, this is a strawman argument. People just want to sit in restaurants without smelling horribly afterwards, a sentiment I can agree with. But let's not turn this into something it isn't. Lots of people work in chemical plants where the risk of cancer and other conditions is 'hightened', not too dangerous, but comparable to what restaurants workers have to live with. (and those factories are well within regulations too).

How is working in such a restaurant worse than walking the streets of a smog filled city ?

What I don't understand is why restaurants haven't invested more in the comfort of non-smokers over the years (some have though). A good restaurant where you aren't at risk of smelling someone else's exhaled smoke sounds like a good idea.

These rules (they are in place in belgium already) are pure populism.

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

Bad ban. Just because you find a habit disgusting, does not mean you should be able to ban in on another's property.

Crazed Rabbit

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Why do people find it necessary to smoke while eatting? I don't smoke, but I can assume you have absolutely no will power if you cannot eat a meal without lighting up a cig.

I worked a diner before and I am extrelemy glad this been put into effect.

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Originally Posted by doc_bean

These rules (they are in place in belgium already) are pure populism.

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Except that they save thousands of lives.

It's a bit much to have it banned from all enclosed public areas. There are simply places that are dedicated to smoking, and to endulging smokers. It seems silly to ban smoking in these places, as the person working in the establishment must have experience as a smoker to work there. E.g., places like Che and Boisdale. Nobody goes there not expecting smoke, and it is almost an atmosphere centered around the smoker. The means are more restrictive than they have to be in order to get their end, in the first place. Otherwise, I see no difference between this and banning smoking in most restaurants. The act of smoking is not being banned, but as I said the means are more restrictive than need be, but only restricted in concern for public safety. Similarly, minus the health part, one cannot start watching/looking at pornogaphy in an open park, they must do it in their home. There is an interest to be served in both cases, and the actual act of both is not being banned outright.

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Originally Posted by A.Saturnus

Except that they save thousands of lives.

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I've to disagree with you and agree with Crazed Rabbit. It seems that smoking doesn't cause cancer, or it causes it in so few cases that it isn't reasonable to ban it. This law is just authoritarism, and for what I know it happened on USA too, I hope this kind of mind set doesn't expands to the south too, I don't smoke, in fact I find it disgusting, but in society we've to learn to accept other people's habits unless they hurt other people.

Beyond that it seems that every study devoloped in USA showed between the considarations and tests a tendence to non-causation, but to push an agenda this agencies showed the conclusion first and in big letters saying that it causes it. Anyone who can read and has the will could discover it by himself (Material extracted from Penn & Teller's: Bullshit).

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Originally Posted by GiantMonkeyMan

it is already banned in england in restaurants but when is it going to be for pubs?

and it is something like it takes 5 or so hours in a smoke filled room to do the same damage to your system as 2 cigarettes... it isn't as bad as everyone thinks and i learnt this from a business studies teacher who was trying to teach us the advantages of having the tobacco industry and stuff so it might actually be false info or exagerated

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Er, nope. There is no legal ban on smoking at the moment in England. It comes into force next year for all public places.

As a non-smoker in the pub trade I welcome the ban. Not on health grounds especially, since I knew when I started that I would be in a smokey atmosphere, but because I regard smoking as a filthy habit. Stinking smoke that clings to your skin, clothes and hair, fag butts (thats one for our American friends to ponder) everywhere. The taste in your mouth when eating near a lit cigarette, hell even the taste when kissing a smoker.

I look forward to nights at works, and about town, without the reek of smoke. And if it helps so much as one person give up the smokes then it is worthwhile.

Can't wait for it to come to the rest of the UK. Tonight it was illustrated to me of why it is so needed. A group of smokers constantly lighting up right next to me and forcing me to inhale their smoke for no other reason than their selfish obsession, killing me because they can't help but continue 'killing themselves to live' (cheers Sabbath) I have Asthma and have a cold / flu coming on so my chest was buggered and I was having a hard time breath / coughing like an invalid, for ages. It just isn't fair, I have a right not to die of cancer because other people have the right to smoke and kill themselves with cancer.

The ban is just and fair and it has been far too long in coming, after all it will help smokers give up as well, they often need a kick up the arse.

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but in society we've to learn to accept other people's habits unless they hurt other people.

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Exactly, smoking DOES hurt people, it bloody KILLS them. smoking kills the smoker and all those who are persistently around their smoke.

And if you honestly believe that smoking does not cause / distinctly increase the chance of cancer, not to mention all the other terrible side effects of smoking like clogged arteries and thinning blood, then you really need to talk / listen to some doctors. I do not know of one doctor who wouldn't state that smoking is anything but terribly harming. And if they say on the contraire you will probably be able to find the stinky, ash ridden money along the trail.

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It just isn't fair, I have a right not to die of cancer because other people have the right to smoke and kill themselves with cancer.

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Where were you? Inside a pub? On someone else's property?
And you expect you can demand to decide what they can and can't allow? You ahve no right to go someplace and insist they change for you. I also suspect the danger of public secondhand smoke is exagerrated.

Crazed Rabbit

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

Where were you? Inside a pub? On someone else's property?
And you expect you can demand to decide what they can and can't allow? You ahve no right to go someplace and insist they change for you. I also suspect the danger of public secondhand smoke is exagerrated.

Crazed Rabbit

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Exagerrated? I really can't believe I'm saying this, but I agree with JAG; you really should talk to a few doctors.

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

Where were you? Inside a pub? On someone else's property?
And you expect you can demand to decide what they can and can't allow? You ahve no right to go someplace and insist they change for you. I also suspect the danger of public secondhand smoke is exagerrated.

Crazed Rabbit

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So it would be ok for me to poke people with a thumbtack wherever I go? After all it doesn't cause much damage and they could just go somewhere else.

Imo the Hysteria concerning second-hand smoking is way exxagerated.
If I go to a bus station at a heavily frequented inner-city street and light up a cigarette while waiting, there's always someone who will start coughing deliberately to tell me that I'm affecting them. Come on. We're outside inhaling far more poisonous fumes from cars and trucks than my cigarette causes to you in open space.
Anyway, closed public spaces ban would be okay to me. I can restrict myself no problem. Say, train stations, all public buildings like universities, schools, etc.
What I do object is the ban in pubs and restaurants and clubs where the owner has no problem with smoking. Some pubs or clubs have a certain image connected to smoke, they attract smokers and the owners themselve smoke. Who are we to forbid it? Hang up a warning sign that this area is poisonous to people and be done with. What about cigar bars? Close them down? They have a right to exist as much as you have a right to non-smoking areas.
But it won't stop there. I'm sure it won't be long until landlords won't give flats to smokers.
I do understand the health issues and I'm not ignorant to what I'm doing to my body but this smoking ban hysteria is getting fascist. ~:smoking:

EDIT: Oh and btw, why don't we have those disclaimers on candy bars, like "Sugar can make you fat and kill you!" but I guess the obesity problem isn't just as pressing, isn't it? and who is going to pay for the fight against terrorism which, as my government tells me, is funded by the tax on tobacco in germany.

Unleaded fuel was introduced for a reason.
As were catalytic convertors and other pollution minimising devices.

Tunnels normally have exhaust stacks and filtering devices in train stations and on underground highways. The old miners canaries were there to check for air pollution.

Not to mention all the liabilities that companies are now facing due to asbestos. Insurance companies will get involved when they have to start 'coughing up'.

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In NSW, Australia you can smoke at train stations, just not if it is roofed. Some stations you are not allowed to smoke at at all (generally the ones that are serving hospital stops).

Bans on clubs, pubs and restaurants are state by state. So it changes, however every place that has banned smoking has not had monetary difficulties for the venues. It seems that it is a scare tactic without any real teeth... a lot of people instead come out to eat because they can do so with the full range of their sense of smell... after all if you cannot smell you only can taste and that leaves you with bitter, sweat, sour..... it is your sense of smell that adds to the subtle range of flavours... try enjoying flavours with a blocked nose...

...A far worse thing for the venues in some council areas has been over zealous parking inspectors.

a good move.
I hope it's adopted in Portugal soon.

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Originally Posted by A.Saturnus

Except that they save thousands of lives.

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Do you have any statistics on that ?

BTW sports cause quite a few fatalities and a whole lot more injuries, a very large drain on our already weak social security system, should we ban all sports then ?