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During the early and polybian eras, (Hastati, Principes and Triarii), did the Romans use any troops on the flanks of the front and/or second line? Like spearmen or something? Or did Hastati make the front line on their own, solely? Also same goes for the reformed troops of Marius, did the legionaires first line have spearmen/other infantry on its flanks?
Thanks.
I would have to find my Goldsworthy book to confirm this, but if I am correct the hastati, princepes, and triarii would from the center of the line; on either side of them were auxiliaries from their various allies; on the wings would be cavalry. It also seems that these troops were arranged in the quincunx formation as well.
Thats basically it, although the principle is basically in infantry centre with cavalry on the wings, the Roman word for wing is Ala, plural Alae this is where our word Ally comes from, because the Roman's Allies were the cavalry on the wings.
The Infantry Auxilleries were usually equipped in a Roman fashion, even the "standard" infantry Auxillary from the Imperial Period is a Legionary with a spear instead of Pila and a round shield that couldn't form Testudo.
What can we use in EB 'allies' on the flanks? Samnite spearmen or Samnite heavy infantry mercenaries? But they are a little expensive i must say...
Gallic Auxilliaries from Northern Italy fighting on the Roman wings are mentioned by Livy in describing the battle of Trebia. Now Livy is pretty bad when it comes to these things, but the provision of Auxilliary troops by loyal gallic tribes makes perfect sense.
Actually in a previous campaign as the Romans i used those troops on my flanks... Mala Geroas their name is... Only problem is, they have terrible defense and, well, not the best attack either... No armour or helmet, just a shield, spear and throwing javelins...
They will still block a unit attacking your flank for a bit, giving you time to adjust and move in a heavier infantry unit to counter.
They're not too bad, 120/240 men with an attack of 11, total defense of 13, and a bonus against cavalry for a mere 1340. With the number of men they have per unit they can afford to take the casualities that the lower defense causes. They also have a ton of javelins, which can be very helpful.
So 4 units of these? One on either side of my first line and one on either side of my second?
That would work, Botroas would also work. Greek auxiliaries would work too, especially when fighting in Southern Italy or in Greece. Iberian auxilliares in Iberia, etc. Basically Romans and Latins made up the core of Roman armies everywhere, and local allies filled it out.
So then for northern Italy, since the people there were allies of Rome, i shouldn't build a type 2 government there? So far i'm early in the campaign and have only taken Taras as i'm playing very slowly... I want to start doing any real conquering around 160BC and then it'll only be the southern coast of Gaul.. But i should build the allied government type to be realistic in northern Italy?
Sure, start with a type 4, around the Polybian reforms or so change to a type 3, and then a type 2 around the Marian. Hopefully we'll eventually have a gov't system that simulates something more like this, 1.5 has allowed us to free up some building slots so we'll see.
I remember one of you saying that you had a few units planned for the Romans to recruit as auxiliaries for use on the flanks of a legion as we are talking about in this thread... Any chance of telling us how they'll be armed and armoured, good/bad morale? Perhaps a picture of some sort if one exists?
In RTR they had Italian spearmen/swordsmen to use as Auxilia and i thought they looked perfect as Roman allies or auxilia.. In the mod a while back called "Roma" (Made the game really hard to play as Rome) they had a simple spearman unit that fitted the bill perfectly... Will EB be adding something like this?
We should have actual allied units soon, such as the allied cavalry. At least I hope so.
If you want to see good diagrams of the army formations, I'd suggest picking up a copy of John Warry's Classical Warfare and Peter Connelly's Ancient Greece and Rome at War. Both show the checkerboard formations (like you see at the end of Spartacus) but Connelly's especially shows the Camillan units and allied units as well.
Is there any chance of you could set up an early and polybian legion in custom battle for me exactly how the Romans did it, using mala geroas or something else as 'allies' and put the screenshot on imageshack or something? I've got a good idea of how it is done but i've never been able to find a proper diagram that also shows allied soldiers...