Proposed new faction: Meroe

Sorry if the discussion of new factions has been beaten to death. Fell free to tell me if I am out of my element since this is my first post here.

If EB is going to get a replacement faction in the future, I would like to propose that it be the Kingdom of Meroe" target="_blank">Kingdom of Meroe (AKA: Kush, AKA: Meroitic Kingdom).

Meroe had an advanced culture and a strong base of power. They are the direct descendents the Kushites who conquered Egypt several centuries earlier. They also had advanced agriculture and architecture. During the period covered by the game, they replace hieroglyphics with their own writing system.

The economy of Meroe was centered on the export of hides, iron, gold, semi-precious stones and crafts. The kingdom built forts to protect trade routes.

I do not know much about Meroe's military organization, but they seemed to have the expected assortment of spearmen, bowmen and cavalry. They also used forest elephants in battle.

Game effects: Meroe is already on the map, so it would not have to be added. Meroe would be for an advanced player looking for a challenge (like the Numidians in Vanilla). He would expand along the southern edge of the map and wait for an opportunity to hit the Ptolemies while they are busy with the Seleucids. Possible Meroitic victory conditions would include the conquest of all of north-west Africa (including modern Libya) and the Arabian peninsula.

I would be willing to join a team doing research on this.

Sounds good to me... But i'm afraid i think the EB team have said that there absolutely will not be another faction in that part of the map.

You're probably a bit too late, they're working on the new faction to replace the Yuezhi already.

Remember that the port to 1.5 will unlock the Senate slot in addition to the one vacated by the Yuezhi. So with some luck the next build may feature two new factions. Khelvan announced that the decisions which factions this will be have already been made, but EB's decision about which factions to include are based on the availability of someone to coordinate, so perhaps they may reconsider. Perhaps.

On the other hand, factions on the edge of the campaign map are tricky. This is the reason why the Maureans won't be in this mod and part of the reason why the Yuezhi are being booted. In both cases their focus lay off the campaign map. Therefor I am very interested in the historical expansion of the Meroe. In which direction lay their primary interest?

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Originally Posted by Mellow Horde

Sorry if the discussion of new factions has been beaten to death. Fell free to tell me if I am out of my element since this is my first post here.

If EB is going to get a replacement faction in the future, I would like to propose that it be the Kingdom of Meroe" target="_blank">Kingdom of Meroe (AKA: Kush, AKA: Meroitic Kingdom).

Meroe had an advanced culture and a strong base of power. They are the direct descendents the Kushites who conquered Egypt several centuries earlier. They also had advanced agriculture and architecture. During the period covered by the game, they replace hieroglyphics with their own writing system.

The economy of Meroe was centered on the export of hides, iron, gold, semi-precious stones and crafts. The kingdom built forts to protect trade routes.

I do not know much about Meroe's military organization, but they seemed to have the expected assortment of spearmen, bowmen and cavalry. They also used forest elephants in battle.

Game effects: Meroe is already on the map, so it would not have to be added. Meroe would be for an advanced player looking for a challenge (like the Numidians in Vanilla). He would expand along the southern edge of the map and wait for an opportunity to hit the Ptolemies while they are busy with the Seleucids. Possible Meroitic victory conditions would include the conquest of all of north-west Africa (including modern Libya) and the Arabian peninsula.

I would be willing to join a team doing research on this.

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A faction suggested in a good way at least. :2thumbsup:

We will not add a faction that's on the edge of the map, but most importantly did not do anything signifcantly in regards of military expansion (including attempts at it) or trade. And they should also have had a good military unit roster which is interesting, which Meroe does not exactly fit that well, yet by your post not so bad either.
The main reasons Meroe wouldnt be chosen is faction limit and there are other factions that might be more deserving. Did Meroe expand into any parts of EB's map within the time period (272BC-14AD) or did they control any major trade routes? If they were mostly dormant in their region then they could be better represented with the Rebel faction.

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Originally Posted by Krusader

A faction suggested in a good way at least. :2thumbsup:

We will not add a faction that's on the edge of the map, but most importantly did not do anything signifcantly in regards of military expansion (including attempts at it) or trade. And they should also have had a good military unit roster which is interesting, which Meroe does not exactly fit that well, yet by your post not so bad either.
The main reasons Meroe wouldnt be chosen is faction limit and there are other factions that might be more deserving. Did Meroe expand into any parts of EB's map within the time period (272BC-14AD) or did they control any major trade routes? If they were mostly dormant in their region then they could be better represented with the Rebel faction.

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Meroic Kush tended to try to expand southward down the Nile towards Egypt. In fact, Meroe was close to the southern end of Kushitic lands, as the map at this site shows.

Here is a short one in the first century B.C. :

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"During the final century of the BC era, the kings of Meroe expanded their rule into Lower Nubia between the first and second cataract. This led to clashes with the Roman rulers of Egypt. A Meroite army attacked the border town of Syene in 23 BC and destroyed or seized a number of statues and other valuables. A bronze head of the Roman emperor Augustus, probably seized in this raid, was discovered by archaeologists at Meroe in 1912. The Meroite raid provoked a Roman counter attack which penetrated as far a Napata and caused much destruction. When the Roman army finally retired to Egypt, they took with them several thousand captives whom they sold into slavery. Despite this military setback, under the leadership of King Natekamani, who ruled from 12 BC to 12 AD, the Meroite kingdom recovered to reach the height of its power and artistic achievement. During Natekamani's reign the kingdom stretched from the Ethiopian foothills in the south to the first cataract in the north. The wealth of the period was displayed in the building of temples and palaces."

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That is the expansion one province during the entire game. Admittedly not very good.

Relations between Meroitic Kush and Ptolemaic Egypt:

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Political Relations of Kush with the Ptolemies' Power in the III to II c, B.C.

E.Ye.Kormyscheva

The author considers the problem of boundaries between the Ptolemaic Egypt and Kush as arising from political relations of the two countries in the time of the earlier six Ptolemies. The relations are shown to be mostly conflicting, the Ptolemies' hankering after elephant hunting in the territories of Kush and coveting the gold mines of Wadi Allaqi lying at the root of the antagonism. Another cause of discord was the Dodekaschonos province.

The Ptolemies' southward expansion began at the time of Ptolemy I Lagos who invaded the regions inhabited by Irem tribes. Ptolemy II's campaign (described by Diodorus Siculus and Theocritus) resulted in Kush having to pay tribute to Greeks, and being subordinated to Ptolemies' power. The story of this campaign dated by year 16 of Ptolemy II's rule, was inscribed in the stela of Pithom.

Under the king Arkamani, Kushites succeeded in gaining mastery of the northern regions of Kush against the claims of Ptolemies. Analysis of Arkamani's inscription in Dakka and of other texts mentioning the presence of Arkamani in Kalabsha and the island of Philae has shown that Kushites managed to oust Ptolemy IV from Dodekaschoenos province. The further fate of Kushites in the north was closely related to the course of rebellion in Thebaide. The defeat of the insurrection resulted in Ptolemies consolidating their position in Dodekaschoenos and Kusites being forced out of that province, Under Ptolemy VI Kush lost part of its northern regions and again became tributary to Ptolemies' power.

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Once again, only one province is being exchanged back and forth. It does not make for a strong case.

I will see if I can find something else that would make Meroe an interesting expansion to the game.

The big problem I see with this is that the Ptolemaioi are so strong that unless there is heavy fighting between them and other nations, Meroe would just be flattened since they can only start with one province. The Sweboz and Casse can be successful basically because they are isolated from other neighbors whereas the Meroe wouldn't be.

I rember watching the history channel once and it said somthing about the Romans invading them but they were able fight of the romans and made a peace treaty with them.

Please see the four or five other threads devoted to adding meroe or axum ;)

Where are they? I looked around and could not find them.

(I know that the chances of getting Meroe in there are pretty close to nil, but it is an excuse to do some research.)

I know y'all must have already seen this but I want to file it in this thread:

Strabo's Georgraphy:

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When [the Ethiopians] desired three days for consideration, and did nothing which they were bound to do, Petronius attacked and compelled them to fight. They soon fled, being badly commanded, and badly armed; for they carried large shields made of raw hides, and hatchets for defensive weapons; some, however, had pikes, and others swords...

The Ethiopians use bows of wood four cubits long, and hardened in the fire.

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That's four units.

That piece was writen from a Roman perspective. You should also remember that this was in the middle of a long, slow decline for Meroe, which was at the height of its power in the 3rd and 2nd centuries, BC. At the start of the game, Meroe may have been able to field more units.