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I'm quite pleased with this:
https://img141.imageshack.us/img141/3430/vikwin22dn.jpg
That should finally stop those incredibly annoying raids.
On a related note - is it possible to assassinate the Vikings out of existence? I tried, but new heirs seemed to appear out of nowhere.
how did you manage to invade the Viking's Starting locations?
Isn't that impossible?
Bribery! Your emissaries can cross the water even though your armies can't :2thumbsup:
Spies, bishops etc to create a rebellion, then bribe the rebels (see the unbribable and weak principles v&v as evidence) . Then use that part as a springboard to attack the other "island".Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraWar
IIRC it's possible, but because the Vikings almost always get a civil war after you kill thier last hier, it can take a while.Quote:
Originally Posted by p_nutter
I'm certain about the civil war part and I think I've been able to assassinate the Vikings out of existance once or twice.
That's it.Quote:
Bribery!
1. Conquer most of the map, build abbeys, mines, trade buildings, farms etc
2. Once you can afford it, bribe the garrison in Denmark.
3. Loyalist revolt is usually immediate. If you win, great. If not, bribe the not-so-loyal loyalists and go to step 3.
4. Eventually you'll get a good army which can effectively kill revolts. I got 1 landsmenn unit and 1 spearmen, which was (barely) enough to kill the revolts (which were mostly thralls and archers, athough there was one immensely irritating mounted crossbow unit in a rebel revolt).
5. Do everything you can to increase loyalty. Build towers + shrine (or build inn and pray), commit dreadful acts. Notice my governor has 2 dread-increasing virtues and the "peoples champion" title which gives +2 dread.
6. Build fleet at Denmark and sink the viking boat guarding norway.
7. Build inn in Denmark, hire massive stack of mercs, and invade Norway!
My first attempts to bribe this guy failed, so naturally he now has both "weak principles" and "unbribable"! And he got "skilled attacker" killing my first bribed garrison, which was quite annoying but worked to my advantage in the end.
I really have to congratulate you, especially since you did it with the northumbrians in the first place. I guess I just don't play them to their strengths.
I remember trying to shake up the Vikings and I know it is hard.
IIRC blitz the Scots and advance from that.Quote:
Originally Posted by NodachiSam
For the Northumbrians, you'll need to attack the Mercians first, as a war with the Picts will be slow and the Mercians will gain too much strength during that time.
I managed it once with the Welsh - pretty much the same process. Having beaten the Vikings out of Britain, a pretty poor (as in cr*p and as in skint!)Viking king sat in Norway and a single unit garrison in Denmark. I had a decent spy in Denmark, so the province rebelled quite easily. Rebels cheap to bribe -- I say cheap, but as I had all of Britain and Ireland for my economic powerhouse I could afford anything they asked... I kept a high-dread title scroll ready for the bribed general, and pretty sure I had a top-notch bishop there for a while, too. I had enough loyalty to prevent a rebellion, anyhow. Finally, with the facilities in Denmark I could build some ships to reach Norway, and an army to kill off the king. Very satisfying total victory that one....:laugh4:
Which difficulty level was that on? It's not an easy feat, and of all the VI factions I've always found the Picts the most difficult. I've done 100%, playing hard difficulty, including scandinavia as every faction except the picts of which I've never managed to finish the campaign with. Seeing this has made me want to try the picts again!
The problem with VI is keeping down the Mercian supremacy that is inevitable, the other issue is that the vikings are pretty useless when AI controlled and never pose a threat. I usually convert them to christianity early on and then plant high valour spies (max starting valour spies possible very early in VI) in their provinces to cause endless revolts until they're wiped out by the rebels. Then I bribe the rebels and take control.
Also the Vikings cannot be assassinated out of the game, they are like the HRE or pope in MTW, a new leader is always elected.
That is what happened to me. As the picts I took over the north and the Mercians took all the south and flooded me with bloody huscarls. . First game too. ( I should play VI, I've only played it twice surprisingly.) Someone said Beserkers are good against armour so that'll be the plan. However I bet 12 units of beserkers won't stand against 12 of huscarls numerically even if they qualitatively are superior.
Beserkers aren't good against armour. They don't have an AP bonus and as good and cool beserkers might be they'll lose against huscarles. Only when they're all valoured up (which they achieve a lot faster than huscarles) can they stand a chance and even then I have my doubts.Quote:
Originally Posted by NodachiSam
Best bet as the picts against huscarles: the (mounted) crossbow and if you can hire them bonnachts, dartmen, Welsh bandits and the likes. Huscarles are in trouble against armour piercing skirmishers. Let them run themselves tired chasing you while pestering them with AP missiles and end off with flanking them with some good cavalry or a good AP infantry unit.
The biggest problem with the VI campaign is the Mercians who have by far the greatest advantage. Unless you're in the position to take them out early on then you'll find it very hard going later. IIRC Berserkers don't melee as well as Huscarles either, they're also unarmoured of course which does pretty much guarantee the Huscarles will always win, despite the Besekers' attack, charge, morale etc.
This was on hard difficulty. I don't think the Picts are particularly hard - I'd say the Scots and Welsh are the hard factions, and the Picts are one of the easier factions.Quote:
Which difficulty level was that on? It's not an easy feat, and of all the VI factions I've always found the Picts the most difficult. I've done 100%, playing hard difficulty, including scandinavia as every faction except the picts of which I've never managed to finish the campaign with. Seeing this has made me want to try the picts again!
The Picts have some really nice units. For the first 30 years, my armies were made up almost entirely of Celtic warriors and Pictish cavalry (and the Picts have +1 valour provinces for these), with a few berserkers and crossbows.
I finished eating Northumbria in the year 821, so I got to the Mercians before they became too much of a problem. My first mounted crossbows started to roll off the production line at this point, and they really helped. Although it's a slightly weird horse archer unit, it's great for killing certain troublesome Viking-era units like huscarles.
The Picts are one of the easiest. If you’re smart with finances you can easily consolidate the north by rushing the Scots. You have at least two decent shipbuilding sites. You have 100 man infantry units, crossbowmen AND mounted crossbowmen. Archers are rarely used in VI so you can use those AP bolts to rip apart those Huscarls, then have your Celts attack the spears, while your berserkers flank, and your mounted X-bow men hit them in the rear and capture routers. It’s a real no brainier once you get your finances under control and a full unit roster. Thank God for those hills! To me it’s the best faction in VI.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caravellini
I'll give the picts another go I think. I've always found the Welsh easier to get on with myself, but to be honest I've only attempted the picts about twice anyway. I probably need to make more effort. I'm not one for rushing factions early on, so it may be that my failure to rush the scots of the map and unite pictland is the main cause. Also I've never been too big a fan of mounted crossbows either (though I do know their strengths).
Just remember weapon/counter weapon and you'll be fine. With only a few units in a battle, a single unit advantage can make all the difference. I used to be insecure about entering battle with less than 16 units, now that's the max I use. It's all about confidence and confidence comes with experience!Quote:
Originally Posted by Caravellini
I would stay away from dartmen if you want mercs against huscarles: though they carry more bolts than ordinary javelinmen they aren't AP. Otherwise, you are right. Lure them with a missile unit and then get a few volleys of javelins in their back. Also tire them out before engaging: Huscarles aren't so though anymore after chasing skirmishers all over the field.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peasant Phill
You're right. In my defence, it's been a while since I played the Irish and when I face them I bring enough archers so I can deplete their numbers. It doesn't make such a difference if they have AP missiles or not when a unit is down to a quarter of its original strength.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludens
Well I gave the picts another go. The Vikings landed in Domon, and whipped my 100 spearmen. Next I started sinking their ships, which went well. Then after several years of training +1 valour celtic warriors and pictish cavalry, as well as some crossbows, I launched a reconquest of 800 troops that was totally obliterated by about 100 or so Viking Huscarles, despite sound tactics on my part and a good general. I can finish this campaign on hard with all other factions and expert with the Irish and Mercians, but can't even get off the ground with the picts...
With Picts use your mounted crossbows to tire the huscarles out and then use mounted crossbows and crossbows to hurt the huscarles as they walk towards you, and when they are almost up to the crossbows rush them with your celtic warriors. Hit from behind with your mounted crossbows, and from the flanks with berserkers. Its a lot of units for just 120 huscarles, but it should get you out of the situation without many deaths.
mfberg
That's sort of what I did, minus the mounted crossbows, as I was still in the process of teching up to them, and still lost horribly. Losing domon in the first place severely dented my economy, though I did retake it in the end after another failed invasion and by inciting a rebellion then invading and defeating the rebels. I'll have another go later. Should I rush the Scots next time? I don't favour rush tactics, I see them as a bit of a cheat, but in some cases they're necessary to get your faction of the ground.Quote:
Originally Posted by mfberg
When playing the Picts, nothing is a cheat. You really need to use everything to your advantage to get them to make money and field a decent army.
Thanks for the tips people. I'll give it another go.
Rush early, rush often. Especially in the Viking campaign, where the best opening move is sell all your abbeys, build inns, and buy a ton of mercenaries.
As for dealing with Huscarles, umm.. yeah, they are tough. I've had some success with Pictish cavalry. Walk one unit of cavalry up to the huscarles unit, then walk away when they start moving. Ideally, try to keep the huscarles in the "Attacking" state without actually making contact. That means they are charging, which should tire them out quickly. Once you've made them charge to the edge of the map and back again, hit them in the back with a second cavalry unit. As soon as they turn round and start shredding your horses, turn the first cavalry unit around and hit them in the back with that as well - it's mostly been walking so it shouldn't be too tired. Mob them with Celtic warriors and berserkers - anything with a good attack. This works reasonably well but Jedi princes can still ruin your day.
You might want to watch out for the Benny Hill-code when trying that trick. If you move your unit away from the enemy too often it will automatically go into a non-recoverable rout. I am not sure what reset the counter, but fighting (or at least a charge) should do the trick.
Well I've had considerably more success over the weekend. I began by ousting the Scots and concentrating on building ships. This effectively prevented any landings by the Vikings. Next I began teching up, improving farmland, and training mounted crossbows, pictish cavalry, celtic warriors, bersekers and armoured spearmen. And took Dere from the Northumbrians and conquered (the inherently rebellious) Reget. After this I was producing more Royal Bodyguards to field against the Huscarles of the Saxons who were by this time controlling most of England and Wales.
I had sent bishops to convert the vikings and had planted spies in their lands which succeeded in causing a revolt and wiping them out. I managed to bribe Hordaland but couldn't get to Jutland in time before the Vikings reappeared.
Later, having extended my fleets to total coverage, I moved against the Saxons in the south and took most of the south and plunged them into civil war, causing the Mercians to reappear...
After a time the constant fighting against Huscarles (100 men should not cause this much bother to a larger well balanced force) became tiresome (the pictish mounted crossbows overusing the reverse gear!) so when the "you have conquered 2/3 of Britain" came along, I called it a day. :surrender: