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I am increasingly hearing from many sources how important it is that I vote in the elections - as this is democracy damnit!
Can anyone fill me in as to the differences between the parties? Are some advocating that they're not going to collect the litter for example?
I find national parties very similar with the major differences lost after realpolitik hits what passes for idealism. Local ones seem to matter even less.
In essence - what am I missing? :inquisitive:
~:smoking:
Grrr. I spend 8 years as a local councillor in London.... they may not vote but that doesn't stop the buggers complaining does it....
Anyway, no, all parties are in favour of collecting litter, and are against dog poo (and in realising that you have already acheived greater political sophistication than the liberal democrats, who seem to think that only they are against dog poo and that every other party would positively encourage the stuff. Mind you in light of Charles Clarkes "More rapists under Labour" policy who knows...)
Putting politics to one side, I suggest you decide if you are happy with what you know of the local services in your area, having regard (1) to the council tax you pay and (2) to the services and council tax other councils provide (hint Westminster hint). If you are happy, vote for the lot you have got (unless they are liberal democrats) if not, vote for the other lot (NB not liberal democrats).
Failing that please draw a big penis on the ballot paper, it always gives the scrutineers a laugh. Only don't do it in the box for the liberal democrats, in case it counts as a vote.
Why bother? All the parties are the same. They only have one promise:Quote:
they may not vote but that doesn't stop the buggers complaining does it
"We're better than the other guys."
The only parties that would demand and could effect real change will never get voted for any position of power and let's face it - local councils have no power.
Oh no... I voted Labour, so now my bins will be emptied on Monday instead of Wednesday... oh what have I done! I knew I should've voted Green :idea2: .
Very true...Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Khalifah
My favourite is PM's question time...what a complete joke...Mps get together to take the piss out of the opposition, wave bits of paper and boo and hiss like that somehow comunicates some grand ideas!?!?
The worst thing is...we pay for them to do this!!! I wonder about democracy sometimes...
In the commons lying is allowed, manipulation needs to be truely blatant before anyone is aware, let alone looses their job, let alone gets criminal action.
Ideally the meritocracy in the Civil Service should mean the best rise to the top. As it is it's a termite hill of mediocrity with all departments vying to increase size (and therefore power base) with no thought to efficiency.
Democracy is shite. Sadly there's nothing else.
~:smoking:
I don't think it would really matter if anything should slip into the box marked "Liberal Democrats", they only evertry to be second-best, never the actual winner...Quote:
Originally Posted by English assassin
Don't swear...Quote:
Originally Posted by rory_20_uk
Aye. My parents are both (usually, though not of late) Lib Dem supporters, and my grandmother is the most militant liberal I've ever met. That said, they made a bad choice when they chose Campbell. On a local scale they suck arse too. They've been leeching money to pay for the most excessive, pointless things and to fill their own pockets. Meh. The Tories and Labour are a bunch of crooks too. Regardless, I might be ditching all of my principles and taking one big dump on my family, but I'll be voting for the chinless crowd pleaser that is Cameron. My first vote too. Treason! :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke Malcolm
Vote for the BNP.
It scares the hell out the establishment and apparently their councillor in Bradford is the most popular on the council.
Unless you're asian...
No election here as far as I know, at least no ballot card.
Anyway, I think instead of a tick I'll go with the "Politicians are all tossers" across the whole page option next time.
Man we are going to get a kicking, never mind, we probably deserve it after some of the shambles of the last week. I just hope we hold onto some of the traditional inner city strongholds and have no more Newcastle's.
Local elections are important, they set up the foundation for a strong party one of the reasons why the Tories got so whiped off the face of the political map in 97 was because they had no councils left except a few rural ones. If you get beat and beat and beat at the local elections it comes back to haunt you.
Man we are going to get a kicking
JAG I thought you were just a little ever so slightly left leaning , so how do you apply the "we" when you talk of Blairs labour party ?
I see how people use the local elections as a determinant as to how happy they are at central government - but doesn't that mean we could just have a national poll, and sack all the councellors? Wouldn't that be nice?? :2thumbsup:
~:smoking:
Much better to keep the councillors and sack the national politicians. Local councillors do actually do stuff, I get/got lots of emails along the lines of "That bloody road hump is too high" "Yes I know I cycled over it this morning, I'll email the Environment dept" "That bloody road hump is still too high" "I know I'll give them a kicking" "Thanks for getting the road hump mended"
Actually, that last bit never happens, no one ever says thank you.
Local elections are totally different to national one. This is whats sets out what is going on in your area.
ie,
Environment
Sports and leisure
Crime
Health
The people that get in your local council will decide how much council tax you will pay. They will decide on what car parking charges will be applied to your local car parks. How often your rubbish bins are collected etc.....
Generally labour run areas spend more money, but you pay far highter council taxes in proportion to tory run councils.
I say we because I am a member of the Labour party and I have campaigned locally for the party up here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribesman
I say we because I am a member of the Labour party
Ah I see ,sorry Jag , I thought that maybe you had resigned your membership when they became ThatcherLite~;)
Oh dear oh dear. So, the volte face by Tony has not dampened your feveror?
I imagine the usual "coz if we don't the Tories will get in" in the argument, yes?
~:smoking:
Hehe, here in the Netherlands one of the government parties, D66, made total fools out of themselves during the last year. With the local council elections, they got hurt bad...and lots local detachments of D66 have taken different names and cut the umbrelical cord with the national D66. Ouch...but they deserved it. Does that sort of stuff ever happen in the UK?
heh, well as I say to many people you would be surprised with the amount of good lefty things this govt does.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribesman
A lot of pre- and sufixes can probable be applied to labour, along with a good bunch of adjectives, but don't insult a proud tradition and call them 'lefty' or anything that comes near.
The BNP has done well in Barking (woof!!), they bloody well must be barking to vote for the fascists.
linkQuote:
BNP making big gains in Barking
The British National Party has doubled its number of councillors in England - including winning 11 seats from Labour in Barking and Dagenham.
The party, which already had about 20 councillors, also gained three in Sandwell and three in Epping Forest.
This is a direct result of the social engineering experiment that New Labour has been pursuing for nearly a decade. Unlimited immigration and the decision to abolish border controls in the late 90s have contributed to the rise of the BNP.
The politicians say that they have to engage with the electorate, but then they ignore them because they don't like what a lot of them are saying.
One day they will have to take into account that the white working classes just don't want to be shoe-horned into a multi-cultural society.
If someone in the political elite doesn't get his head out of his arse and address this issue, I can foresee a lot of problems in the future.
Not really. Occasionally you get "residents groups" that look suspiciously like a bunch of people who used to be the local labour/tory party, and Blairs brilliant idea of elected mayors produced a crop of monkey mascots, (really http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politi...nd/4522687.stm) but that's about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kralizec
We don't have PR for most local elections so there's not much future in being a splitter.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/h...p/html/map.stm
Looks like Labour really did get a kicking in some areas. Clarke has already been fired and Blair's made his biggest cabinet reshuffle so far, you can almost smell the fear emanating from the top ~D
It's an absolute spanking for Labour and about time too. The current government's idea of what the Labour party is supposed to represent makes me sick.
Perhaps the government will take into account that people are very disgruntled with certain aspects of their policies (hence the high BNP vote) and make positive changes to address them. Or more likely, they'll just discard them and claim that they are just racists and shouldn't be allowed to run.
A pretty rubbish performance by the Liberal Democrats too, but what do you expect with Ming the Mericless for a leader. If only they'd recognise they are essentially 'the student party' and try to cater for it, perhaps they'd improve.
Well, at least New Labout didn't ruin teh economy like Old Labour managed to do. Sure, I don't agree with where the money is going but at least the country isn't bankrupt.
If Labour had some strategic policies instead of a melange of altering eye-catching ideas that last for a few months / years before being replaced by a flurry of others I'd be quite content with things. That and Europe of course.
Massively taxing the rich and massive spending is a surefire way of making companies flee the country. 40% is harsh enough as it is.
~:smoking:
Good news is that they lost a seat in Bradford MDCQuote:
The BNP has done well in Barking (woof!!), they bloody well must be barking to vote for the fascists.
I fear you have some sort of powers that see into the future, good sir...Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Khalifah
As much as I dont care for the BNP, Im actually glad they got in... If nothing else it is sending a message that people will only tolerate so much and not just vote for the top 2 parties.
Yes, and it was just the same with those votes for the NSDAP in 1929. A kick up the backside for the incumbent regime and nothing to worry about at all.Quote:
As much as I dont care for the BNP, Im actually glad they got in... If nothing else it is sending a message that people will only tolerate so much and not just vote for the top 2 parties.
Well they should be allowed to run, but they are racist and no-one should vote for them.Quote:
Or more likely, they'll just discard them and claim that they are just racists and shouldn't be allowed to run.
Hardly a fair analogy but whatever...Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Gloucester
So the majority of Barking residents are now card carrying nazi-wannabes because they voted BNP?Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Gloucester
From what little I saw of the news reporters talking to people in Barking, it wasnt that black/asian/whatever people was what locals were upset about.
It was the fact that they felt that foreigners regardless of ethnicity were being prioritized over them.
That is nationalism- which all too often gets used synonymously with racism, till the point where you cant even suggest anything whithout someone screaming rascist.
Now, Im not saying that some, perhaps many of the BNP are actual racists but that still doesnt mean that the people who do vote BNP are neccesarily racist themselves.
It would be interesting to see how many BNP-voters consider themselves as protest-voters, you can't expect people to stay calm when their genuine concerns get the broadbrush treatment. I guess they are a bit sick of being called a horrible person by filthy rich multicultists that eat at a pakistan restaurant once a week and have a immigrant friend as a pet now that black buttlers just aren't fashionable anymore, just because they are concerned about their living enviroments .