Samurai Warlords: "Conquest of the Empire" -Competition

Tournament Format

Samurai Warlords is a Contest Map based 1v1 multiplayer Campaign Competition. It requires MTW/VI 2.01 and STW_Mod_BETA5 with samuraiwars_v10b stats, and stwmaps map pack. All Battles played at 10k, all realism settings on, default unit size, with no time limit.

It involves 16 individual Players, 16 game Factions (one used twice), and 16 Provincial map divisions of the islands of Japan.

The object of the Competition is to be reigning Lord of all Japan, with all Provinces subjugated by you or your Retainers.

Each Player chooses their starting Province and representative Faction on a first come first serve basis.

In each Round, Players submit plans to attack another’s Province, to secure it and it’s resident’s services in the quest for complete military control of the Empire. The ensuing single Battle will be played on the game map for that Province.

The majority of these maps provide advantages for the Defender, so the burden is on the Attacker to win against the odds. If the Attacker looses, they go home empty handed, and the Defender’s Province remains secure for another Round. But if they win, they then become the controlling Lord of the Province and it’s former Lord’s ruler.

If a Lord owns two or more Provinces, their original Province receives a Castle to denote their extended ruler-ship. The previous Lord of the conquered Province stays on their land, but is now a Retainer of that property, for the new Lord.

In further Rounds, the Retainers victories in Battle will be brought under the same banner of their Lord, until the end of the Contest. That is unless the Retainers Province is attacked and lost again. They would then be in the service of a new Lord. And if their current Lord is defeated, they will both serve that new master.

The obligation is to have to fight two different Battles in a given Round, with two different opponents. One as Attacker to secure more territory, and one a Defender protecting your Province.

All Provinces are accessible by sea, so there are no geographical limitations as to who you can attack, or who can attack you. And the Contest Map will be updated on Report of Battle results, to keep the record current on who is fighting for who at any given point during the Round.

Plans to Attack are made on a first come first serve basis at the beginning of the Round. Provinces can only be under attack from only one Lord at a time. And you can not counter attack one who has declared attack on your Province in the same Round. If the one you want has already been declared under attack, or the resident is attacking you, you will have to elect to attack another.

If you chose to attack the same Province twice in successive Rounds, and do not succeed, you will then loose your lands and become the Retainer of the Lord that you are attacking. The consideration being that your forces have been spent, and can not resist a walk-in by your opponent.

Your questions and concerns please…

One problem I can see with the above, is that at some point that there will most surely be an disproportionate quantity of Provinces belonging to a particular Lord. And thereby not enough opposition opponents for all of that Lord’s Retainers to be involved in attacking.

To address this, we will have to make all Retainer attacks ordered by their ruling Lords. Selecting correctly who is to attack who, will be very important as to who will eventually rule all. And that is the rightful responsibility of the one who will be receiving the glory, should this be done correctly.

So, Retainers will be truly servants of their masters, as to who, when, and when not to attack. The plot thickens…

Lords will be posting their Attack Orders as threads on a dedicated forum. This thread will then be used by their attacking Retainer and the Province's resident, to arrange a meeting time, and Report the results of their engagement.

The Order posting will be alternated, one each in-turn, from a random draw at the beginning of each Round.

Retainers without orders to attack may still have to defend, and may be required at any time in successive Rounds, to make an attack. In other words, it is not over until it is over. So everyone please stand ready and alert at the beginning of every Round, until the Competition is ended :bow:

Another revision to the above:

Because we have no choice in life as to who our parents are (what Game Clan we will represent), or where we will be born (what Province we will have to defend). Those decisions will be assigned by random draw.

.......

All of the above Tournament Format is still open for discussion and further revision, and will be redrafted in-total to show all changes included. But if you already know that you would like to participate, and can commit to 2 Battles every 3 to 4 weeks, you can go ahead and sign up now.

Just send me your player name by Org Private Message, and I will add you to the list. That list will be made available here as a single post on this forum, updated daily.

Please do not hesitate in getting signed up, as there are only 16 spots available. We will also take Backup entrants, in case someone has to leave. But there is no guarantee that those folks will get to play, so please don’t wait too long…

:charge:

And please confine any comments and questions regarding this Contest Format to this thread, and post on other related topics elsware to keep things tidy :wink:

Thanks!

First of all, many thanks for your initiative. It's appreciated very much.

I like the outline of the campaign or tourney so far.
The problem you addressed:

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One problem I can see with the above, is that at some point that there will most surely be an disproportionate quantity of Provinces belonging to a particular Lord. And thereby not enough opposition opponents for all of that Lord’s Retainers to be involved in attacking.

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I understand it this way: In the inevitable final case that two oppositions remain there'll be eight taishos in each faction, one of them being the Lord.
4vs4 is the max playing format. So the Lord would have to choose only 4 players, meaning that 8 of us won't play in the final battle.
Also when one faction has more retainers than the one it's attacking, what then? Take the lowest number? Say, when you have 3 vs 2 make it only 2vs2?
To be honest, I don't quite get it.
The good thing about the previous mini competition was, that everybody was playing from start to end. No elimination in early rounds.
I hope this concept is hidden somewhere in these rules?

:bow:

confused R'as

Quote:

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I understand it this way: In the inevitable final case that two oppositions remain there'll be eight taishos in each faction, one of them being the Lord.
4vs4 is the max playing format. So the Lord would have to choose only 4 players, meaning that 8 of us won't play in the final battle.
Also when one faction has more retainers than the one it's attacking, what then? Take the lowest number? Say, when you have 3 vs 2 make it only 2vs2?
To be honest, I don't quite get it.
The good thing about the previous mini competition was, that everybody was playing from start to end. No elimination in early rounds.
I hope this concept is hidden somewhere in these rules?

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Glad to get some feedback R’as, now we can start hacking this thing out :smile:

Let me start with Plan A:
My hope in the beginning was to be able to just take the Samurai Wars format (1v1, 2v2, 4v4, single day comp), and apply it to a Contest map. The progress of that always would grow evenly, with all Daimyo Teams growing at the same rate. And when there were four 4 Taishos per Team, play them off in 4v4 as follows.

[Let me insert here that all of these Matches would be set by random draw, with no choices on opponent, or map involved.]

A Team vs. B Team (for example A Team wins)
C Team vs. D Team (D Team wins here)

The loosing Team would then become Retainer for the conquering Lord.

Then it would be:

A Team I vs. D Team I
A Team II vs. D Team II

If both of one or the other of the Teams won, then it would be game over, with a Champion Warlord reigning over all.

If one of each won, then we would play the two winning Teams against each other for a final decision.

Now this would work, and could be done in a couple of weeks, probably three at the most. But is problematic in several ways.

1. Logistics
Trying to get everyone together for several weeks (maybe as many as 3), to play at the same time, is improbable. And trying to work out any other independent scheduling, basically impossible. It’s not like these were Clan Teams with their own forums and hierarchy to assist with getting these things taken care of.

2. Challenge
The only real challenge with this format, beyond winning the first Battle, is to always be on the winning Team. This can be accomplished with little or even no application of leadership, so there is not much of a test involved to qualify one as a Daimyo, or eventually Shogun (ruler of 15 other Clans).

Now let’s take a look at Plan B:
What I had hoped to convey in the first post in this thread, was a 1v1 Tournament series. With all Battles independently scheduled by the opponents. This would amount to approximately 2 Battles a month, one each, with two different people.

[Another interjection. This does not mean we can’t get together on weekends for big game fun :wink: Just that the Contest would probably mean some odd single games here and there through out the month as well.]

In this second format, you are assigned a Faction and a Province. And then will have to chose who you will attack on their Province. At the same time someone else will be selecting to attack you on your Province. In one you will be the Attacker, in the other Defender.

If you loose your attack, you go back to your Province to plan another. If you win the attack, you go back to your Province to plan another attack for your self, and who your new Retainer will attack also.

If you loose in the defense of your Province, you and all of your holdings then belong to the new Lord. If you do manage a successful defense, you get to keep your Province and holdings for another Round.

The skills required to reach the top in this second Contest are significant, and when there is a final Shogun, there will be no doubt as to their qualifications. They will not only have to be staunch Defender, but a cunning Attacker as well. Add to this is delegating the correct attacks for all of their Retainers. And all of the above must be done properly, Round after Round until the end, in order to be the military ruler all of Japan.

The first would be over in less than a month. But the second may take quite a bit longer, with holdings being shuffled about, changing the ownership landscape of the Game Map with every Round.

Oh Yes!
The uneven part mentioned above would be where one Lord ruled say 11 Provinces. He would then have 10 Retainers to send against the 5 remaining Provinces. So there would have to be a decision on who to send. Limiting this would be already registered attacks (first come first serve) against his Retainers (can’t attack someone who is already attacking you).

At this point 5 would be under attack, fighting only one Battle as a Defender. Another 5 (possibly himself making 5th), would be fighting only as Attackers. That leaves one of his Retainers without a mission in this particular Round.

I hope that helps some?


So that’s where this is at right now, a Plan A and a Plan B. The decision as to which, or another format, rests with this discussion thread. We can’t please everyone all the time. But if everyone that is looking to be involved would take a few moments to state their preference (A, B, or other), and get all of their concerns posted. We just might just to work out something we can all enjoy :grin:

You know sometimes a little sleep can do wonders :dizzy2:

There is really no reason that we can’t do both. Just so people understand the difference between the two.

Samurai Mod Mini Contest (Plan A above)
The casual, meet on line on a Saturday or Sunday, all on the same large map, with multi partner games (1v1, 2v2, 4v4). Ending with a Supreme Lord of the battlefield of the month Champion. This can accommodate 4, 8, or 16 players, and everyone playing all the time.

Samurai Warlords Campaign Competition (Plan B above)
A more serious, sign up only, long term Contest Map based singles (1v1), twice a month multi battlefield (all small map) extravaganza. The eventual winner being Shogun of all Japan. This one requiring 16 players, with some shrinkage near the end.

Better?

I doubt there are 16 players interested in Samurai Wars let alone 16 willing to commit to a long campaign style tournament.


As to the 1v1 campaign format, a player who has just lost defending his home province can only win when attacking another province if the defender of that province is weaker by an amount that exceeds the terrain advantage provided by the map. Pragmatically, the player who defeated him would be more likely to succeed on further attacks not the player who lost when defending. This makes sending retainers off to attack provinces an exercise in identifying the weaker players. For a single player to win this campaign, his/her skill has to exceed each of the other players by an amount equal to their skill + map advantage. The campaign could become an endless exchange of provinces as the two best players conquer the other's retainers, but are unable to conquer each other because they can't overcome the map advantage when facing each other.

i think we'll get 16 players :-)

interesting point by Yuuki,

suggestion

once a player has lost their home province they permanently become a retainer of the conquering player?

they remain a retainer as long as their lord "lives"

once a couple of people have been "conquered" ,
then it becomes lord AND retainer vs lord AND retainer?
2v2's?

if both lords have 2 retainers then they could have a 3v3
and so on?


a "retainer" can go traitor and switch sides,
but
1. they must announce they are doing so WELL BEFORE the battle begins,
2. the battle MUST be equal number of player per side
3. the battle MUST be no less than a 2v2
4. the "traitor" can use only 2/3 of the normal koku allowance (not all their troops would stay)
5. IF that battle is lost the "traitor" is out of the game, considered captured and seppuku/executed?
6. seppuku/executed applies ONLY to THAT one battle, from then on "all is forgiven"


we need at least one dedicated RONIN,
so that IF a player has only one retainer
AND that retainer switches sides
THEN they still have a battlefield ally who can help them in the ensuing 2v2

#4 and #5 makes switching sides a risky proposition AND prevents players switching sides merely to weaken an opponent

just ideas
B.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tomi says

There is really no reason that we can’t do both.

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I agree. We can do both if enough players join....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tomi says

Samurai Wars Mini Competition (Plan A above)
The casual, meet on line on a Saturday or Sunday, all on the same large map, with multi partner games (1v1, 2v2, 4v4). Ending with a Supreme Lord of the battlefield of the month Champion. This can accommodate 4, 8, or 16 players, and everyone playing all the time.

Samurai Warlords Campaign Competition (Plan B above)
A more serious, sign up only, long term Contest Map based singles (1v1), twice a month multi battlefield (all small map) extravaganza. The eventual winner being Shogun of all Japan. This one requiring 16 players, with some shrinkage near the end.

Better?

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I think we should try to maintain the Mini competition on Sundays. We need something semi-permanent to keep the interest alive. Besides, I think the format was fun for everybody. Picking different battlefields for each competition is a nice touch, too.

The second one, the Campaign Competition, would only work, as Yuuki as pointed out, when and if enough players sign in. The announcement is up a few days now and we don't even have all the players from the mini comp signed in. I'm sceptical here. I would like to play both formats and I do like barroca's ideas on the campaign format. The map advantage is a serious issue, I'm afraid. We may be able to get around it if we make it a rule that there are no dedicated attacker and defender roles, like we did in the mini comp.

:bow:

I’m really stretched for time right now, but am reading everything.

This weekend I am intending to build a model Contest Map, and with all suggestions, begin a series of simulated contest tests to check out all of the possibilities. I will find out what will, and will not work :wink:

In running these model tests, I will be employing the concept of balanced Province Map battlefields, which I think will solve a problem or two. But this will also create the need for a set of maps that are actually balanced. So there is that work to be done also.

I will be exploring the possibilities of escalating to multi partner warfare. What ever can be done in that direction, will be.

That of course requires that all of the maps in the new set be large. Sixteen balanced large maps with Province names, in a sammap pack :2thumbsup:

(Maybe a triple set, "without", and "with" minor, and major Castles. Who knows :grin: )

Work In Progress Report

Eight different new ideas, or changes to existing ones, were culled from the above.

They will be put into the rule mix, and format testing will begin to weed out incompatibilities. May take while.

Only two things I wanted to explain about:

“no dedicated attacker and defender roles, like we did in the mini comp”

Unfortunately CE (Conquest of the Empire) absolutely has to have Attacker / Defender dispositions, as that is the basis of everything. But the maps will be balanced now. :smile:

“I think we should try to maintain the Mini competition on Sundays”

That works for me best also. But there are at least a few who can’t make it on Sundays. And it is real important to make the Mini Comp available to them too. It’s from those Contests that folks realize what a great mod this is, and how much fun we can have with it. Then hopefully they will also enter the CE, which can be played at any time.

Back to work on this…

Where are the big names? Not saying the names above or below me in the list are small, but where are the big daimo?

Annie

I’m sorry Annie, but either the longer term commitment, or the lack of final rule-set for this big game, or both are holding things up (not to mention the Mizus infatuation with DUX).

As far as finishing the rules. That has been delayed by community problems needing immediate attention. I will return to them as soon as the dust clears.

On the commitment part, I believe a few more specific battlefield Campaigns might be needed to stir up the interest of those lost Samurai, who haven’t made the connection with us yet.

To that end we will be meeting on line today at 18:00 hours GMT for a Samurai Warlords Mizulands Campaign.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=64885

Even if we don’t get the Conquest of the Empire started right away, these battlefield Campaigns are a lot of fun. I hope you will be able to join with us for this new one today.

:bow:

Please note change above. Should have read 18:00 hours GMT :dizzy2:

Somedayz :no: