Church finsd wonderful, terrible news

According to a survey by the Church of England, young people (1) know nothing about God and (2) are perfectly happy with that: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...169809,00.html

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The authors began their work believing that even if the young had little knowledge of Christianity they would still have religious or spiritual yearnings. They were shocked to find that they did not.

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Nevertheless, young people do not feel disenchanted, lost or alienated in a meaningless world. “Instead, the data indicated that they found meaning and significance in the reality of everyday life, which the popular arts helped them to understand and imbibe.” Their creed could be defined as: “This world, and all life in it, is meaningful as it is,” translated as: “There is no need to posit ultimate significance elsewhere beyond the immediate experience of everyday life.” The goal in life of young people was happiness achieved primarily through the family.

The researchers were also shocked to discover little sense of sin or fear of death. Nor did they find any Freudian guilt as a result of private sensual desires.

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So, happy, well adjusted, focused on the family, finding life meaningful...and this is BAD news?

Anyone who doubts that religion is indeed a drug and the clergy, of all kinds, are the pushers, here it all is, in the good old cuddly C of E no less.

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Originally Posted by English assassin

According to a survey by the Church of England, young people (1) know nothing about God and (2) are perfectly happy with that:

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This is great. They can enjoy their life and when the doomsday comes they can't be doomed, because they didn't know that there is such a thing as God.
:balloon2:

Allelyua!! :thumbsup:

Finally, the species grows up.

~:smoking:

testing new sig,

+1

yep, their happy now and good luck to them if they wish to live like that,
but they don't mean that the church is irrelavent if people don't wan't to be christians i don't mind, what i do mind is when an increasing amount of people use this to ridicule my way of life by saying that the church is unessisary.
I can a assure you ive got a lot out of being a christian and think that overall it has benifitted me greatly, if some people think they don't need belief without trying it then good luck to them but it doesn't mean its unnessisary.

Here we go again. ~:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Byzantine Mercenary

yep, their happy now and good luck to them if they wish to live like that,
but they don't mean that the church is irrelavent if people don't wan't to be christians i don't mind, what i do mind is when an increasing amount of people use this to ridicule my way of life by saying that the church is unessisary.
I can a assure you ive got a lot out of being a christian and think that overall it has benifitted me greatly, if some people think they don't need belief without trying it then good luck to them but it doesn't mean its unnessisary.

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:furious3: Calm down, lah! Who was having a go?

Maybe you need to relax, like the nice young people in this survey :laugh4:

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Originally Posted by English assassin

According to a survey by the Church of England, young people (1) know nothing about God and (2) are perfectly happy with that

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Does anyone know anything about GOD?
There is much belief out there but not much knowing...

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According to a survey by the Church of England, young people (1) know nothing about God and (2) are perfectly happy with that: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...169809,00.html

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The article does seem to gloat a little about this. I'm not sure if such a lack of spiritual 'seeking' is a good thing. Religion, or spirituality can confront us with ourselve. It can make us question our motives and ambitions and can help us understand ourselves.
So young people these days prefer an mp3 player to a deeper understanding of the world ? Maybe it's more practical, but it reminds me of a pretty typical reality show saying "I had a difficult moment, I was thinking."

My views on religion are pretty much the same as my views on drugs, used responsibly it can be a good thing, but don't get addicted.

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So, happy, well adjusted, focused on the family, finding life meaningful...and this is BAD news?

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Well, it is for the church I guess. I think the church (both catholic and all others) have to adjust to the fact they have become a service and need to consider their costumers.

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Anyone who doubts that religion is indeed a drug and the clergy, of all kinds, are the pushers, here it all is, in the good old cuddly C of E no less.

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I was always taught that pushers shouldn't be users. :oops:

Anyway, what bothers me (a little) is that the cultural, traditional value of religion is being ignored. Christianity is part of the European culture and heritage, yet even so called intellectuals have fun bashing it. The same people who look down on the 'unwashed masses' because they lack an historical understanding.

It's rather appalling how bad most people's knowledge of 'our' religion is. Considering our ancestors have practised christianity for thousands of years, I think a little respect for tradition might be in order. Not that we should go to church every sunday, or actually start believing in the trinity (or even understand the damn thing, but go ahead if you like), but we should not forget.

If we completely forget religion I'm pretty sure that within a few generations it will be back with a vengance, no matter how well adjusted the modern youth is.

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Originally Posted by Byzantine Mercenary

yep, their happy now and good luck to them if they wish to live like that,
but they don't mean that the church is irrelavent if people don't wan't to be christians i don't mind, what i do mind is when an increasing amount of people use this to ridicule my way of life by saying that the church is unessisary.
I can a assure you ive got a lot out of being a christian and think that overall it has benifitted me greatly, if some people think they don't need belief without trying it then good luck to them but it doesn't mean its unnessisary.

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I have nothing against church, if it is a sunday club were peoples sing and braise their god. But the problem is, at least in Finland, that church wants influence in earthy things.

For example, church has right of taxation. Private person, who doesn't belong to
church doesn't need to pay the tax. But all corroborations must. Even if it owned by pagan.

Churches are okay, state religion is not.

Wait up. My point was really summed up in the second passage I quoted. that doesn't describe shallow hedonists living empty lives and craving the next consumer gadget, it describes well rounded adult human beings.

I have nothing against an individual user of religion. But I really DO have an issue with an organisation that can find this

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"There is no need to posit ultimate significance elsewhere beyond the immediate experience of everyday life.” The goal in life of young people was happiness achieved primarily through the family. The researchers were also shocked to discover little sense of sin or fear of death.

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And see it as a PROBLEM ?!? Finding significance in everyday life, valuing happiness in the family, little fear of death, QUICK. They might decide they don't need us. Roll out the Auto da fe...

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Originally Posted by English assassin

And see it as a PROBLEM ?!? Finding significance in everyday life, valuing happiness in the family, little fear of death, QUICK. They might decide they don't need us. Roll out the Auto da fe...

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The article seems to be making fun of the Church, like I said, you can feel the gloating.

If there is a 'problem' for the church is that they are no longer needed (which isn't true, of course) which every organization, every business would see as a problem. They have costs and expenses too, and they'd like to support charity, so they need people giving them money. Another possible 'problem', at least to the very religious people in the Church would be that all these kids will go to hell (at least they would be 'sure' of this), and this could certainly be seen as a problem for someone who cares about people.

But yes, organised religion can be an ugly thing. :wall: I just don't see this as a particulary bad sign, when they call for a crusade, I'd start worrying...

Is this the time where the object of The Enlightenment has been reached?

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Originally Posted by Sjakihata

Is this the time where the object of The Enlightenment has been reached?

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My hope exactly.

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Originally Posted by doc_bean

The Anyway, what bothers me (a little) is that the cultural, traditional value of religion is being ignored. Christianity is part of the European culture and heritage, yet even so called intellectuals have fun bashing it. The same people who look down on the 'unwashed masses' because they lack an historical understanding.

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The Church did its best to eradicate most of our classical heritage, which was the the real underpinning of European culture, but kept some bits of it that it liked. The same should now be done to our Christian culture and heritage, for what they are worth in comparison. ~;)

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Originally Posted by English assassin

Anyone who doubts that religion is indeed a drug and the clergy, of all kinds, are the pushers, here it all is, in the good old cuddly C of E no less.

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Errm...

I still doubt that religion is a drug (you have more of a point with the clergy being pushers) and I really do not see how it relates to the article...

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Originally Posted by English assassin

Wait up. My point was really summed up in the second passage I quoted. that doesn't describe shallow hedonists living empty lives and craving the next consumer gadget, it describes well rounded adult human beings.

I have nothing against an individual user of religion. But I really DO have an issue with an organisation that can find this

"There is no need to posit ultimate significance elsewhere beyond the immediate experience of everyday life.” The goal in life of young people was happiness achieved primarily through the family. The researchers were also shocked to discover little sense of sin or fear of death.

And see it as a PROBLEM ?!? Finding significance in everyday life, valuing happiness in the family, little fear of death, QUICK. They might decide they don't need us. Roll out the Auto da fe...

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I see it as a problem too. A LOT of the so-called "common sense" moral values have been traditionally...well, enforced, or perpetuated, or whatever you might wanna call it, by the church. Let's not get into an argument of whether the church did overall more good than bad or viceversa.
I wholeheartedly agree with doc_bean's first post - spot on !

Yes, I believe that the church can/could/should instill some sense of moral virtues, and so on, in people. If not from the church, where are they going to get it from ? TV? Internet ?
Their "free-spirited" peers ?

As for the little sense of sin, I don't think that's right either. What's stopping me from killing someone (assuming I don't get caught by the police) ? Nothing, because I don't have a notion of sin. I can't understand how you can agree with that, but that is what not having a sense of sin is all about - not just dodging the law, and everything is fine if you could get away with it.

And no, I'm not a zealot, nor do I agree with everything that the church says - but it has its good parts, and, whether you like it or not, it did play a big part in the Christian societies' moral values and spirituality. Unless/until something else appears that can take its place, it should stay where it is and try to continue to fill that gap.

Apes as far t have religion. Yet somehow against the odds they manage to exist in groups without a sense of sin bieng instilled into them.

And although we are supposed to be evolved apes, it seems some think we have lost these innate qualities

The church might like to think that it is still so important in our lives, but that is only because it has taken over far more basic features of our species and perverted them to its own slant on things.

Some religions are OK, especially those that let us be ourselves. The highly regimented, strictly indoctrinated hirachical ones are as needed in the 21st century as the Inquisition.

~:smoking:

The researchers were also shocked to discover little sense of sin

Amorality. Say what you like about Christianity, but the morals instilled by the church will be missed greatly when it disappears.

By all means celebrate the end of Christianity. In the absense of religion, wait and see what will rise. ~:)

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Originally Posted by PanzerJager

Say what you like about Christianity, but the morals instilled by the church will be missed greatly when it disappears.

By all means celebrate the end of Christianity. In the absense of religion, wait and see what will rise.

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I should think Nietzsche has a perfect answer for that in Zur Genealogie der Moral

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Originally Posted by Red Peasant

The Church did its best to eradicate most of our classical heritage, which was the the real underpinning of European culture, but kept some bits of it that it liked. The same should now be done to our Christian culture and heritage, for what they are worth in comparison. ~;)

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Oh please. You're a smart person, tell me you know better than that :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Sjakihata

I should think Nietzsche has a perfect answer for that in Zur Genealogie der Moral

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Nietzsche proclaimed that “God is Dead” back in 1882 and organized religion still seems to be going pretty strong. Although an interesting fellow, I don’t think Nietzsche ever had a perfect answer to anything.

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Originally Posted by PanzerJager

By all means celebrate the end of Christianity.

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I believe Christianity is the largest religion in the world, and the largest or 2nd largest growing religion in the world.

Combine that with the fact that 90+% of the world believes in some form of religion and I think people are a bit too giddy over a small study out of the UK.

The world does not revolve around 18-25 year old British subjects.:juggle2:

While old Europe (I mean that in the literal sense not as the buzz word it has become recently) is becoming more secular no doubt, they are also dealing with an influx of Muslims into their populations as well. Instead of going from Christianity to no religion, they may very well go from Christianity to Islam.

By the way my post was not at you Panzer, I just used your quote to touch on the theme that this thread seems to be taking.

As for the C of E, well what do you expect? Of course people who earnestly believe that atheists will spend eternety in hell (or at best, oblivion) will get worried if more and more people turn their backs on religion. How can you possibly be surprised by this?

I am no adherent of any religion, so :shrug:

I've always wondered how people survive soulless British estates. So it seems it's by not thinking about it and being happy with a shiny car.

Go them. I'm happy religion is dying down here then. Need some sanity in this world, what with people blowing themselves up and banning dildos and stuff in the name of a god.

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Originally Posted by doc_bean

If there is a 'problem' for the church is that they are no longer needed (which isn't true, of course) which every organization, every business would see as a problem. They have costs and expenses too, and they'd like to support charity, so they need people giving them money.

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Well if you want to go down the charity beat, I would like to see every version of Christian churches auditied and see how much money actually does go to the needy. For a set of charity organisations some of them have a lot of valuables that have nothing to do with serving either God or their fellow man.

"So much bling that a Kings Cross Tranny would be ashamed to wear it"

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Originally Posted by doc_bean

Another possible 'problem', at least to the very religious people in the Church would be that all these kids will go to hell (at least they would be 'sure' of this), and this could certainly be seen as a problem for someone who cares about people.

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Way I read it is that the way to Salvation is through a personal relationship with Christ not through monetary donations, works, lifestyle or the particular building you turn up to to pray in.

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Originally Posted by Kralizec

Oh please. You're a smart person, tell me you know better than that :rolleyes:

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Then enlighten me, oh enlightened one. You obviously disagree, probably swallowing the Church's propaganda that it saved (ha!) classical culture from the hairy barbarian masses.

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Originally Posted by yesdachi

Nietzsche proclaimed that “God is Dead” back in 1882 and organized religion still seems to be going pretty strong. Although an interesting fellow, I don’t think Nietzsche ever had a perfect answer to anything.

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Yes, it sounds just like you know how to read Nietzsche. All you know, apparently, is that he proclaimed God is dead. That's not really relevant to what I was getting at; namely the revaluation of morals. He sees the christian moral code as slave morality, undermining the true morals, which generelly can be defined as the opposite; the morals of the strong, yes-saying, active - the noble people.

Obviously, you only refer to Nietzsche as the 'demon' who opposed religion. I can recommend you actually read some of his works (why not start with The Genealogie?).

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Originally Posted by Blodrast

Yes, I believe that the church can/could/should instill some sense of moral virtues, and so on, in people. If not from the church, where are they going to get it from ? TV? Internet ?
Their "free-spirited" peers ?

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The whole point of the article is that they managed indeed to get a sense of moral values outside of the church.

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Originally Posted by Panzer

By all means celebrate the end of Christianity. In the absense of religion, wait and see what will rise.

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What appears to have risen according to the article, are people who are quite happy, well adjusted, focused on the family, and finding life meaningful.

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Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

What appears to have risen according to the article, are people who are quite happy, well adjusted, focused on the family, and finding life meaningful.

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Well, there have also been studies that show that religious people are more happy, so everyone can get a warm, fuzzy feeling choosing whichever study...~:grouphug: