Along the wine-dark waters
Lengthy second post ahoy!
So, I've been playing a Pontus game for a week and have managed to get Sinope, Nikomedia, Trapezus and Chersonesos(what a battle!), I'm making a couple of thousand mnai à turn and my army is around a full stack in size, with almost a half stack in garrisons(4 units in Nikomedia to ward off rebels, 5 units in Trapezous to fend off any Armenian incursions, every other town has about 1 or two units). I'm doing fine, really, I'm well off on armies, provinces and money, preparing an attack on the second Crimean city, just need to collect all the troops separated by Pontus Euxine after retraining all my phalangitai and akontistai in Amaseia and bolstering the army with some peltasts and kluddolon.
What should I do after Crimea and Pergamon(fights against two rebels simultaneously for teh win!)? I'm kinda lost on what to do. I guess I could just take all the rebel cities nearby, except Byzantion since Makedon is right next door after that, and then begin harassing my neighbours. I just want some outside opinions first and considering the title of the forum, this might be the best place for that inquiry.:2thumbsup:
I have a few questions about Pontus and the game in general also. Just a note first: The year is 254, it's Eiar. I hope I'm not blitzing, since I don't exactly condone that tactic and I have no idea what's fast conquering in EB and what's not. Anyways:
1. Where can I get Kuorathoroi? And what mic and government do I need? Elite spear units would really help if I need to take the numerous stacks of Armenian cavalry on.
2. Why doesn't Chersonesos have any city levels after 6000 people? I upgraded it after having to cancel the goverment construction and build Nomos symmachos, because I needed to work fast to avoid squalor. Third time that happened, isn't 20 turns a bit too much build time for homeland? I often need to cancel it's building halfway through and quckly get a government building in place because the towns grow so fast :wall: Anyway, after upgrading the city, there was no 12000 people needed for next city level-thing on the line that non-barbarian civilizations have. Is Pontus done over a barbarian faction and still unfinished? Or is Chersonesos just like that?
3. When do I get my own pezhetaroi? I can already built pretty much all pontic units mentioned in the unit section of your website, but no pezhetaroi. I thought that they would be my regular bread and butter infantry, but I guess not. The next barracks level in Amaseia doesn't read anything about them.
4. What's the deal with scythed chariots? Are they unfinished, because the damage in the unit card seems very low? Not to mention the upkeep is minimal. Suicide-one-use-units? I have not used them yet in battle however, maybe they'll be awesome against the Bosphoran rebels. I doubt that though, since there is a full stack of peltastai in the second city. :wall: Easy on the peltaistai in the next update, please.
5. Thureophoroi or peltastai? Their stats are very similar and they seem to function very similarly. Do thureophoroi have less javelins, since they are supposedly a javelin-avalanche-and-then-charge-units? And if they are supposed to charge, then why do they have a charge value of 1? The peltasts have 26 which seems a lot better charge value. Right now, I don't really see any reasons to recruit Thureophoroi, but I keep recruiting them along with Peltastai just because both look cool.
6. Finally, what determines the Uncomfortable(?) governor-trait? I seem to get it in the worst possible situations. I hate having to swap governors between cities, just becasue the other one is somehow "doing the wrong thing" and other has very unhappy poeple-trait although he has over 6 in management, is very religious and no negative traits whatsoever. Thankfully you can negate the unhappy/happy people traits just by letting the general out of the city for a turn. Otherwise I'd be in serious problems when the public just keeps dropping in Nicomedia no matter what I do. Does the governors ancestry matter to happy/unhappy people-traits? Does the religion matter?
Awesome mod, by the by. Never have had as hard battles as when taking Trapezous and Chersonesos. I spend two hours fighting the latter one and my army was about half of the enemy forces, yet I still cling to the shaken units and won without using any cheese tactics with a starless general against one with 5 stars. So very very satisfying. Also, Pontus feels a lot more exotic and pontic than in RTR, in which I came across EB. The mix of native Persian, invading hellenic and galatian influences is just more visible and present.
Oh, and hi. You have a new fan.~;p
Re: Along the wine-dark waters
As for #2, you can't level up the city until you have a government building in it and completed, so that is probably the reason why you were having trouble there.
The scythed chariots were just placeholders - I don't know if there will be new EB ones later, but they haven't been done yet for sure. I can't answer unit questions in general though - but I do know a better phalanx unit will be in the next build for Pontos.
I can't answer the trait question - I have no idea on that one and our trait guy is gone at the moment.
Pontos will be better, but still not complete compared to some other factions, in the 0.8 build. Diplomacy will be better - relations with Armenia will be more trustworthy I think. They will have their own eastern GUI with Hayasdan and Pahlava though, and some new units. But they still have more work to be done. They are one of my favorites though, so I will keep pushing for new things for them when I can.
Re: Along the wine-dark waters
Peltastai have an incorrect armour value; it should be two points lower. As it is, Thureophoroi don't have much of an advantage over Peltastai. However, Peltastai are inteded to be heavy skirmishers whereas Thureophoroi are melee infantry. The charge value shown in the unit card of Thureophoroi is that of their primary weapon, the javelin. The actual charge is 26, but since charge-bonus doesn't work properly in R:TW 1.2 this doesn't matter much.
Scythed Chariots are indeed unfinished, and IIRC they are going to be dropped. They aren't intended to kill, just to badly mess up a unit's formation (like elephants do), so again the attack value is of little importance.
Kuorathoroi and Pezhetaroi cannot be recruited by Pontos according to the temporary recruitment guide.
I cannot answer questions 2 and 6.
Re: Along the wine-dark waters
As it is, thureophoroi don't actually have any advantage over peltastai. This needs to change, no matter what excuses we get about peltastai being infantrymen who were given lighter armour.
Re: Along the wine-dark waters
Don't the theuroperoi outnumber the peltastai 120:80?
Re: Along the wine-dark waters
Wait.. nevermind. Got the theuroperoi confused with the akonsistai.
oops! :embarassed:
Re: Along the wine-dark waters
Hummm guys.... I guess you forgot something. The theuroperoi have a BONUS fighting cavalry and peltastai don't. So thats one advantage.
I usually have of them on the flanks.
Re: Along the wine-dark waters
Pontos should be able to recruit kuarothoroi. Pontos is the best source for that name being used for Galatians, and had a long history of using them in their armies. I really thought Pontos could get them with a Mic 5 in Ankyra.
And Pontic thureophoroi are great looking units. I guess that settles that, eh?
Re: Along the wine-dark waters
I can't speak for unit recruitment really -and big changes are taking place in it now, so bear with us for when all the new units get in to get the system right and unit recruitment fixed up totally.
But :grin: I will definitely agree that the Pontic thureophoroi are sweet!
Re: Along the wine-dark waters
I really hope scythed chariots will be in kept in the mod, they are very funny to use and are the only spectacular unit Pontos can get, being half-greek , half-eastern the poor Pontos lacks the glorious hypaspists/hetairoi/elephants of their greek cousins and the mighty cataphracts of their eastern ones, so they need something special, Pontos need love :2thumbsup:
Re: Along the wine-dark waters
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spendios
I really hope scythed chariots will be in kept in the mod, they are very funny to use and are the only spectacular unit Pontos can get, being half-greek , half-eastern the poor Pontos lacks the glorious hypaspists/hetairoi/elephants of their greek cousins and the mighty cataphracts of their eastern ones, so they need something special, Pontos need love :2thumbsup:
Kappadokian Cavalry aint elite enough? :inquisitive:
Or some mixup with them now as well?
They do get their Chalkaspidai and with high probability also the "Galatian Gaesatae".
Mithradates did indeed use chariots, however at Charonea his chariots failed so miserably Sulla's soldiers roared with laughter.
Re: Along the wine-dark waters
So, no heavier phalanx, no kuarothoroi, government types before goverment buildings(although the amount of people needed for next level did show up on every previous city WITHOUT a government yet in place, this one just shows blank) and harma are still unfinished? Alright, I guess I can live with those.
Thanks guys.
Re: Along the wine-dark waters
Quote:
Originally Posted by paullus
And Pontic thureophoroi are great looking units. I guess that settles that, eh?
I demand screenshots!
Re: Along the wine-dark waters
Pontus is awesome, so I hope they get some loving in 0.8.
Oh, by the by, there's really no reason to conquer Ankyra now, since there's no Kuarothoroi, right? Too bad, modding them in for Pontus is propably a process too convoluted for me. I mean, it would be pretty easy if this was vanilla, since you'd just add them to Pontus' unit list, but since the MICs and governments are in, it's probably some serious business. I could give it a try though, if someone is willing to help.
Re: Along the wine-dark waters
Quote:
Originally Posted by Musopticon?
Pontus is awesome, so I hope they get some loving in 0.8.
Oh, by the by, there's really no reason to conquer Ankyra now, since there's no Kuarothoroi, right? Too bad, modding them in for Pontus is propably a process too convoluted for me. I mean, it would be pretty easy if this was vanilla, since you'd just add them to Pontus' unit list, but since the MICs and governments are in, it's probably some serious business. I could give it a try though, if someone is willing to help.
There is a Kuarothoroi recruitale by Pontus in Galatia since 0.7 or earlier. I have no idea what you are saying. Maybe there is a recruitment error?
Re: Along the wine-dark waters
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aymar de Bois Mauri
There is a Kuarothoroi recruitale by Pontus in Galatia since 0.7 or earlier. I have no idea what you are saying. Maybe there is a recruitment error?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludens
Quote:
Originally Posted by paullus
Pontos should be able to recruit kuarothoroi. Pontos is the best source for that name being used for Galatians, and had a long history of using them in their armies. I really thought Pontos could get them with a Mic 5 in Ankyra.
:dizzy2:
No, I haven't conquered Ankyra yet, so I can't confirm anything. Fighting six units of gaesatae isn't my idea of fun if the result is anything but an advantage over the white horde of Seleucids. So are they in or are they not?
Re: Along the wine-dark waters
Quote:
Originally Posted by Musopticon?
:dizzy2:
No, I haven't conquered Ankyra yet, so I can't confirm anything. Fighting six units of gaesatae isn't my idea of fun if the result is anything but an advantage over the white horde of Seleucids. So are they in or are they not?
Kuarothoroi should be recruitable by Pontus in Galatia (capital Ankyra). IIRC, not in Odrysai (capital Tylis). IMHO, it's an obvious error. If it is on the files it will be corrected.
Re: Along the wine-dark waters
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenith Darksea
As it is, thureophoroi don't actually have any advantage over peltastai. This needs to change, no matter what excuses we get about peltastai being infantrymen who were given lighter armour.
It will be changed, as Qwerty indicated it is a stat error. The problem is that Peltastai indeed were lightly equiped, but the stats do not reflect this (i.e. they have two armour points more than they should).
