Despised...

Well after my HDD died last week I hadn't been playing too much MTW. I decided to start again yesterday after putting in my new one and reinstalling (yes the HDD with MTW on it died :furious3: ).

I started off as the Byzzies/early/hard and thought: "nice easy one to get me back into it". How wrong was I. I started as usual developing my economy navy and trade while teching up Niccea to train it's p0rno cav and Constantinople and Trebizond for Kats and their namesake archers respectively. The Italians attacked first I think, or was it the Turks? Anyway I was soon, by 1117 that is, at war with no less than: the Turks, the Italians, the Hungarians, the Sicillians and the Papacy! I hadn't instigated any of these wars either. They were all acts of agression against me. The Sicillians have wrecked my shipping. The Italians have done the same, and invaded Greece, which I've abandoned, out of sheer annoyance. The Hungarians decided to go for Serbia and Bulgaria, which I've also abandoned and pulled back to Constantinople which is now being steadily reinforced (because the best of my troops are over fighting the Turks who so far haven't taken anything. In fact I've taken Rum and Armenia from them).

This is strange because I'm often only attacked by the Egyptians, and the Turks often make an alliance, not attacking until much later. In this campaign the Egyptians have remained allied (not for long no doubt).

Apologies for any spelling errors, amongst the flotsam and jetsam I was fortunate enough to salvage some fine beer from the wreckage of a Venetian Galley.

Byzantines in early start with lots of potentially wealthy land but vulnerable borders, so you got exactly what you deserved ~;)

IIRC you start with a unit of Byz infantry and napta throwers in Naples. A moderately risky but very lucrative strategy (when you're starting the campaign):
Give the Byz infantry commander the title Duke of Trebizond and the Commander of the Army or Admiral title. This will give him 3 command stars.
Chances are that Naples will revolt early in the game, but you can still ruin somebody else: attack the vulnerable Sicilians the first turn with all you got in Naples. Build a watchtower in Naples.
Next turn: Sicilians retreat to the keep, Naples revolts but because there's no garrison the rebels will be few in numbers. Go back to Naples and crush those perfidious catholics. Then build a border fort. Attack Sicily again, and repeat.
The trick is to keep building stuff in Naples to earn their loyalty (getting a priest there is not a bad idea either), and each time you beat the rebels they're less likely to revolt. It's unlikely that you can keep Sicily after a succesful raid but you'll prevent them from training troops so that taking it later will be a piece of cake.

Are you playing vanilla? because in vanilla the byz start out quite powerful in early and can easily crush any of their pity neighbours if they wish to. it is especially advisable to do so with the Turks and Eggies. crank out byz infantry in Constantinople (overall the best infantry on the map for quite a while) and reinforce border defenses in Europe as much as possible. once you get to kats and have some nice upgrades in the main troop provinces you'll have a decent quality advantage for the rest of early, very much enabling you to steamroll the map without too much trouble.... darn why am I telling you this? I guess you already know.... just thought I'd mention it since I think about the byz in early exactly like you did before your game: there really can't go much wrong :balloon2: :book:

My main point was the fact that I was virtualy stormed by nearly all of my neighbours within a few years. This hasn't happened before, not on this scale anyway.

I was, and am, training byz infantry, trebs and am working toward p0rno cav in Niccea. I prefer those to kats. I've finished Byzzie campaigns countless times, this just came as a bit of a surprise that's all. I'm simply biding my time before the counter attack. My ships have now started, miracuslously, winning again, and the Sicilian and Italian fleets are quite diminished.

And yes I'm playing almost vanilla MTW/VI. This is my own mod with Sahara province enabled, landbridges removed and peasants as rebel only.

Dang, CheziScrotus XVI, that does seem a bit unusual. Not that it's uncommon for all those factions to pile on the Byz, but I agree that they usually don't do so right away, nor do they gang up on you all at the same time. In my Byz games, it's generally more of a cumulative effect.

In any case, I wish you luck! :thumbsup:

Have you played the HRE much? It can get even worse. I think I was fighting Danes, Poles, Huns, Byzantines, Italians, French, and English all right away and without starting a single war myself. Keeping to yourself and peacefully advancing your civilization isn't always an option.

I don't think I have ever gotten attacked by everyone at once while I have played as the Byz. Usually I get attacked by 1 faction, and then another and then another. The funny part is I'm never really able to sue for peace so in the first 100 years or so I am at war with practically everybody I've run across. Good luck, just remember Purple is really the only color acceptable for the ruling class ~;)

I usually manage to get despised by other factions because of spies and priest activities and refusal of some requested war actions aganist my neighbors by allied or neutral factions.

Use your princesses well. I find that alliances forged by marriage are generally reliable for about 2 decades or so.

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Originally Posted by ajaxfetish

Have you played the HRE much? It can get even worse. I think I was fighting Danes, Poles, Huns, Byzantines, Italians, French, and English all right away and without starting a single war myself. Keeping to yourself and peacefully advancing your civilization isn't always an option.

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Yeah agreed. Last HRE game I did, I never had a single alliance in the entire game! And believe me I tried. Everyone hated me, and everyone attacked me. It was an unusual game to say the least.

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Originally Posted by LordKhaine

Yeah agreed. Last HRE game I did, I never had a single alliance in the entire game! And believe me I tried. Everyone hated me, and everyone attacked me. It was an unusual game to say the least.

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Really? For an HRE game, that seems pretty par for the course. :laugh4: I concur with ajaxfetish that they're even worse than the Byzantines. For the life of me, I do not understand how they're rated at only "Moderate" difficulty; personally, I think they're one of the hardest factions in the game!

The difficulty stated in the campaign selection screen is just plain WRONG. Defending the Holy Roman Empire can sometimes be like guarding a pile of sugar from a swarm of insects.

They're probably the hardest faction to play as overall, except for maybe Poland, who have poorer lands, but just as many aggressive neighbours... I never really got the hang of Poland's economy...

Honestly when playing as Poland I never had more than a glimpse of the problem one faces with the HRE. Firstly, what there is in Polish provinces is more compact and thus more easily defendable, thus not an amorphous land block stretching from Denmark to the Mediterranean sea; secondly, your empire won't crumble after the loss of one or two provinces (which as Poland is much less likely to happen anyway), and lastly IMHO the rather moderate number of neighbours who are likely to attack the Polish can be dealt with quite easily (compared to the HRE nightmare of an...six-front war?). In my current HRE campaign each and every faction I encountered attacked me, either with troops or with their navy, and each time I decently crippled or vanquished one of these annoying jerks the next one behind him turned up :dizzy2: it's 1150 now and despite keeping my expansion to an absolute minimum (I play GA...not the best faction for this) it was necessary to conquer Scandinavia, Italia and a good portion of France just to ensure short to mid-term survival.
The only tricky thing with Poland indeed is the economy, but I tend to go after Lithuania and the Baltic area rather than expanding into the HRE on a large scale so sea trade is not entirely impossible. You'll likely have to take out the Danes, though, to get the florin rolling.

If your all up for a challange try playing as Bulgaria in the XL mod. You need darn good diplomacy to survive!

or the generous help of the byzantines :P

btw do they have decent unit roster? never tried them in XL and now I've switched to MedMod.

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Originally Posted by Deus ret.

or the generous help of the byzantines :P

btw do they have decent unit roster? never tried them in XL and now I've switched to MedMod.

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:laugh4:

Their unit roster isn't bad, its got the standard UM, XB, HA, etc. Then its "unique" units are Bulgarian - Brigands, Cavalry, Heavy Infantry, and they also get Boyars.