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Yesterday I read the papers and I was shocked: In his next movie Superman will fight for truth and all the rest but not for the American Way any longer. The makers say that this does not fit in our time and that this American patriotism would offend people in other countries.
Well, Truth, Justice and the American Way just don't go together in the same sentence anymore, do they?Quote:
Originally Posted by Franconicus
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Oooh. Gawain's gonna be pissed if he's still around. :2thumbsup:
While I find overt patriotism to be cliche and attempt to avoid it, this is just ridiculous that people believe that fighting for the American way is offensive to other countries. Maybe if your some Islamofacistcommie it might be offensive, but I think the rest of the world would be okay with fighting for the American way.
I seriously hope they don't make a Captain America movie.
Hang about...if I got this right, an illegal alien, from the planet Krypton, who wears his undercrackers outside of his tights, (shades of spandex crossdressing fetish methinks), fights for the American way? Or not, as the case may be. :inquisitive:
I reckon it's all made up. :batman:
It's got more to do with selling the film abroad. Just like Pearl Harbour was nice to the Japs as they are a major audience, the makers of Superman want to get the European audience.
~:smoking:
Superman fits the US well. A schoolboy with more power than sense.
I always considered superman to be beyond national identity, the American way stuff was a bit of an eye roller for a man who saves the entire world on a routine basis and has enough power to end the united states if he really wanted to.
To be honest I always found "....and the American way." off putting, it is a bit arrogant after all. That said I wouldn't change it just for the sake of it.
I probably miss a lot of chances - so I try and make sure I stick the knife in deep when I get a chance :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube
It's tongue in cheek comic book stuff. It should have been left as it was, regardless. This is, yet again, politically correct rubbish.
The main problem with Pearl Harbor (or how I like to call it "titanic with airplanes") was not that it was nice to the "Japs"....the main problem with it was that the movie was a steaming pile of crap.Quote:
Originally Posted by rory_20_uk
Agree 100%. Superman's more of just an all-around good guy more than an American one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithras
Now, if they took that bit out of, say, a remake of The Delta Force I'd be PO'd.
News Flash!Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief
Chuck Norris has agreed to do a remake of The Battleship Potemkin. According to his publicist, Norris decided that he felt limited with his image as the All American hero and wanted to expand into other markets worldwide. In keeping with that sentiment, Norris will now get his clothing from International Male catalogue, purchased a small obnoxious dog and has begun dating a guy named Claudio.
What's funny is that I think the exact opposite. Everything about Superman spells America. The iconic pop-culture status. That lone-hero act. The immigrant who, once in his new homeland, discovers that he's really a superhero. The dualism between invincibility and a paranoid fear for some invisible stuff that could take it all away from you again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithras
That and a complete and utter disregard of fear, danger and good fashion taste.
He should stay American, it's what makes him appealing, even to foreign audiences. The whole appeal of a Big Mac is that it is so unashamedly American. Six-story high junk-food that spells poor taste from top to bottom: irresistable.
Superman should fight for the American way, tight-spandexed and all! :2thumbsup:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
....not to mention the nausiating upbeat enthusiasm.
Superman isnt particulary American overall If anything he is a more a representation of idealized humanity. The only manner in which he is American is that he was raised their. I suppose he does have that farmboy thing going but farmboys are found everywhere. You also have to Remember that superman isnt an american dream come true since he inherited his powers rather than earning them (interstingly contrasting with Luthor -a self made man) he also doesnt want this power and sucess-Superman would rather be a farmer in his heart of hearts. Something again which goes against hum
besides we're talking about someone who is essentially a god and any attempt to wedge something of that potency into national identity is a waste of time. Any self-imposed ideas of clark/kal/superman being human are undermined by the fact he is anything but human both phisically and emotionally.
I reiterate, I reckon it's all made up, I mean c'mon a bloke in a spandex suit with external diapers, well, that's just outta this world man.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithras
:smoking:
I completely agree with this. :bow:Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
i can't decide whether i care about a comic book character's motto or not..
Clearly Superman is Dutch.
Hands off our hero.
I think he fits the 40s/50s version of the American ideal pretty well. You know those good old days with jocks and geeks. before emo or even goth hit the scene ? Superman is like the super-jock, the all American hero. While he isn't a self made man like Luthor he gets by because of his talent and not because of some inheritance, which is clearly part of the American dream. He also answers pretty much every call for help he hears, indicating a strict work ethic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithras
Luther is another archetype. The intelligent businessman. He probably got most of his money screwing people over. This is in contrast to the hard working, always helpful superman. He represents the dark side of the American dream, the guy willing to sacrifice others for his own wealth.
The fact that he doesn't really posses any superpowers besides his own intellect could be seen as a fear for intelligence/scholarship/knowledge. It is a warning not to thrust people (much) smarter than you because, in the end, you can end up their pawn.
Superman is indeed the farmboy, a man with humble beginnings who is still in touch with his roots. Perhaps Superman is also a symbol for the poor, screwed over guy standing up to the smart businessman. a poor boy standing up to the rich and demanding justice.
But does he do this using his mind, his wit, his intelligence ? No he uses his superior strength. He is the jock picking on the nerd who, if superman were merely human, would make him crawl and beg. Superman is a high school fantasy. It feeds the idea that the jock really is better than the nerd. Superman was America.
It's probably not a coincidence that Spiderman later emerged in the 60s. The time of the cold war. He represents the superstar scientist. The space race was on, teh bomb hung over everyone's head, and people realised that strength alone, even superstrength, was not enough. IIRC Batman also became much more popular during this period.
I always thought that line was lame, and that Superman was also lame. Why doesn't anyone make a Lobo movie?
PS: Superman is a Canadian character.
If I might belatedly interject, here, Spider-Man wasn't about being a scientist at all. Spider-Man was a much more personal character than Superman or Batman (who had, until this time, 2-dimensional cookie-cutter personas) and was geared more towards the focus on the individual and moralism brought on by the 60's. The whole scientist thing was really just an excuse to get Spider-Man to shoot webs, since Peter Parker designed the compound himself, being a chemistry wiz.Quote:
Originally Posted by doc_bean
Don't forget Iron Man ~;)Quote:
Originally Posted by doc_bean
Supermans powers are anything but talent. I suppose you could argue that his powers are the same as athletic ability but superman doesnt really have to develop this-his natural born abilities give him success the moment he desires it. An athelete as with anyone with talent has to develope these abilities to take them as far as he can go, with many pitfalls along the way. Superman is god-like from birth his success like any aristocracy is inhereted. He is born successful and the only issue is what to do with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by doc_bean
Partly yes but luthor has many admirable qualities which allow him to succeed in life, if he was simply unscrupilous he would not have got this. If you read the comics you'll see he is essentially a genious.Quote:
He probably got most of his money screwing people over.
On a side note I've noticed simularities between superman vs Luthor (post crisis) and God vs Lucifer in paradise lost, that the villains admirable traits are both complimentry and condeming of the Heros valor
That again is a pretty universal theme. Even the soviet nations drew upon this imagery.Quote:
Superman is indeed the farmboy, a man with humble beginnings who is still in touch with his roots. Perhaps Superman is also a symbol for the poor, screwed over guy standing up to the smart businessman. a poor boy standing up to the rich and demanding justice.
I suppose this is a valid arguement but again celebration of the bravo strong guy which is found in any cultureQuote:
But does he do this using his mind, his wit, his intelligence ? No he uses his superior strength. He is the jock picking on the nerd who, if superman were merely human, would make him crawl and beg. Superman is a high school fantasy. It feeds the idea that the jock really is better than the nerd. Superman was America.
Can you give examples or referances for this part. Prior to his revamp supermans writting is best defined as inconsistant so it is difficult tro generalize beyond his initial release.Quote:
It's probably not a coincidence that Spiderman later emerged in the 60s. The time of the cold war. He represents the superstar scientist. The space race was on, teh bomb hung over everyone's head, and people realised that strength alone, even superstrength, was not enough. IIRC Batman also became much more popular during this period.
While I concur that superman is at least heavily influenced by his cultural origins initially, I believe that he is in fact a universal concept=pretty much all his features are not unique to America. Anything which you can put on Superman as specificly American can easily be found within other cultures (farm boy) or as is often the case are not really very American in nature (his inherited powers).
If you want to see how universal superman is read true brit and red son where he is raised a brit and a commie respectivly. In red son he is affected by communist upraising but his personality is essentially the same even if his aims are misguided. In true brit Superman his personality is again the same even if the comic is a somewhat hackyneyed attempt at satire of British culture.
I also always saw Superman as a universal hero that just happened to be landed in america. I remember when i was watching some WWII era cartoons where superman destroyed the japs and stuff like that. I think that this kind of propaganda only poisones the minds of children and its a dirty mean. I would expect for example superman-as superman- to find a way stopping the war for example.
Anyaway beside that i cant see how superman expresses american way. In fact i see Luthor closer to that. He is self created. Intelligent and depends on his strength. The fact that he choses to be vialain is another thing. Superman on the other hand only PRETENDS that he is a poor farmboy. He is more like a European aristocrat with vast fortune emigrating to another place and chosing to be generous.
One more thing. superman is not a new concept at all. Superman is basically a modern Herakles. Instead of semi-god he is alien, he choses to do good as Herakles chose when came to the crossroad of malice and virtue the path of virtue. He helps people as Herakles did with his labours and other adventures.
The bad thing for me is that he lacks the tragic background that can equate his powers. Nobody can have THAT much without paying a price. Every mythological hero pays a price for his powers. Even if he is father of Gods like Odin. Superman has just the kryptonite which isnt THAT good as counter measure to all his hapiness.
I wouldnt agree for a film showing Superman living in Paris, Athens or Moscow. But i wouldnt agree also with an only american hero not caring for the rest humanity. Lets not forget that he actually has no ethnicity. He isnt even human.
Just for the record though Superman was never my favourite comic hero. I would say i like much more spawn as character or if i would go for a row power guy i would pick Conan. He has no problem to do crime although he follows a code of honour, he doesn act like geek when women are around and sure likes to drink and have a good fight.:2thumbsup:
I was never into comic books, but I wouldn't mind an end to (People for) the American Way. :book:
It's only the "American Way" if it's your way? Your way or the highway? How very American. :grin:
Wow your like way behind. DC changed it too Truth, justice, and freedom for all about 1996 or 97. About the same time they turned him into a lighting bolt in a blue and white suit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Franconicus