Viking helmet fallacy

OK, I am posting this here since I am a new member and cannot post to the Monastery, yet.

As far as historical records, burial sites, drawings, paintings, tapestries can attest to, vikings did not wear horned helmets. There is an arguement that they did not wear them into battle because they would have been a hindrance, especially if raiding a town and trying to get into low, narrow doorways. Nor is there any evidence that they used them ceremoniously.

Here is a good article on the subject:

http://www.tirbriste.org/dmir/ArmsAr...0101/0101.html

Very good Site Gorm.

I was going to play devil's advocate and find a site that argues that the vikings did wear horns.. BUT, it's five AM, and I can't be bothered to scroll past the first page of google.

Anyway, here's a site that says the same thing with an odd man in it.

http://tallskinnykiwi.typepad.com/ta..._horns_an.html

doesn't actually say much about horns though...

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Originally Posted by The Fwapper

I was going to play devil's advocate and find a site that argues that the vikings did wear horns.. BUT, it's five AM, and I can't be bothered to scroll past the first page of google.

Anyway, here's a site that says the same thing with an odd man in it.

http://tallskinnykiwi.typepad.com/ta..._horns_an.html

doesn't actually say much about horns though...

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But one of the other links in that article does mention the horns or lack of them. Plus it mentions that the monks (who had most of the money) considered them to be agents of the devil and "gave" them horns. There were many other peoples out raiding, but it was the vikings who had the stealth weapon, the longboat. That brought terror far inland via rivers.

Thanks for the links!

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Originally Posted by Gorm

But one of the other links in that article does mention the horns or lack of them. Plus it mentions that the monks (who had most of the money) considered them to be agents of the devil and "gave" them horns.

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That's an interesting perspective that I had not heard before. Would the Viking raiders have heard of this association and worn such headgear for psychological effect - at least on monastery raids and suchlike where they might not face much opposition?

:trytofly:

I think I read about this some time in a history lession. Vikings didn't wore the "horn-helmet".
I think it was in the 14th-century they first appeared with "horn-helemts" because of some book with drawings of vikings in these "horn-helmets".

Well I'm not sure about the breadth of writings on the subject but if I had been a-viking and a large metal sword was headed for my helmet I'd want it to glance off the curve of the helmet and not get stuck in a horn or torque my helmet off my head because of the leverage afforded by a horn. ( sort of like in the middle of a football game if someone grabs your facemask and twists )

it says here they use horned helmets as offerings...

There is a possibility that the Vikings did not wear a helmet at all...

I watch a lot of the history/military channels...

I've actually seen one hour specials on how the Vikings DID wear horned helmets and also seen one hour specials on how they DIDN'T wear them. As with everything else historic...it depends on who you ask.

The most bonefiable explanation I could thing of was the one offered in a program I saw about 6 months ago: Telephone tag. Their ships resembled something from hell (very "devil-like") and many shoreline living people would spread word of these ships inland. The next thing you know people were on the lookout for horned demons with demon ships.

I don't know though...I was born in 1982. Don't really think there's anyone alive today who could be 100% positive one way or the either ...:skull:

Ive just had a look through the various different books I have about Vikings :book: and cant find a single piece of period evidence that they wore horned helmets
- you would think that if this was a common practice, that the image of horned helmeted vikings would occur more in there Art. I think its more likely that Chiefs or high ranking vikings wore winged helmets - Raven or eagle wings - In Lerwick on the last Tuesday in jan They have a Torch lit Ritual ship burning Known as, UP HELLY AA, A lot of the Locals dress in "Norse" gear, Most of their Helmets Have Wings, Ive Never Been But I have seen them Upclose Wandering round Edinburgh on a stag night - They Looked More like Contestants in an Obelix the Gaul comp than Eric Bloodaxe, but then what do i know - Looking back through the various books ive got, I Tend to think the Horn thing is Just a mistranslation of some account That no one challenged and it found its way into Popular Culture :viking:

I want to see how a war is fought, so badly.

Well, you've come to the right place, Bob. A war hasn't been fought this badly since Olaf the Hairy, high chief of all the vikings, accidentally ordered 80,000 battle helmets with the horns on the inside.

I don't think I've ever heard it argued that they did wear horned helmets. AFAIK, it's a Hollywood convention (kind of like giving angels wings in medieval iconography) with no basis in history.

Ajax

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Originally Posted by Sigurd Fafnesbane

There is a possibility that the Vikings did not wear a helmet at all...

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Very true, armor was expensive and only the big cheeses would wear it the rest of the viking army had to do with woolen armor.

It's also not a hollywood invention (for once) it was thought up by the victorians.

They did NOT wear horned helmets! It would´ve been cool if they did though. That´s why this 19th century romance-theory still lives. During my exstensive research for the FotN-mod I had many talks with one of the leading archaeologists, Sten Stensson, and he stated that this is 100% myth. My uncle who´s the head archaeologist for Jylland (Denmark) and one of the top managers for Aalborg museum also confirms that the vikings did NOT wear horned helmets. Sorry.

I also heard they actually did not have dragonheads on their ships. At least not when they were raiding. Can anyone confirm this?

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Originally Posted by PseRamesses

They did NOT wear horned helmets! It would´ve been cool if they did though. That´s why this 19th century romance-theory still lives. During my exstensive research for the FotN-mod I had many talks with one of the leading archaeologists, Sten Stensson, and he stated that this is 100% myth. My uncle who´s the head archaeologist for Jylland (Denmark) and one of the top managers for Aalborg museum also confirms that the vikings did NOT wear horned helmets. Sorry.

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Good post, PseRamesses! I think that this bears more weight than any other arguement.

It seems more often than not that myths prevail in spite of the truth.

(mind you I will still wear my Minnesota Vikings cap!)

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Originally Posted by MuseRulez

I also heard they actually did not have dragonheads on their ships. At least not when they were raiding. Can anyone confirm this?

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They definite did have dragonheads on the prows. They had special raiding ships (dragonships).

BTW, your signature line should have Sartre spelled this way. :listen:

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Originally Posted by MuseRulez

I also heard they actually did not have dragonheads on their ships. At least not when they were raiding. Can anyone confirm this?

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I´ve seen ships in museums that has dragonheads so atleast some had it but not all. I guess it´s a matter of cost for the owner to make a ship with or without ornamentation.

Does anyone know if there leaders had winged helmets or is that another Fallacy? Ive read that they did but in the same book it gives an account of a group of vikings landing somewhere and on being asked which one of them was the leader they claimed that they were all equal and had no leader :inquisitive: