Da Vinci Inventions...

I am not proposing parachutes or flying machines ......
though..
Not all of his inventions where unrealized , and anyway wherekept unrealized becouse the powerfull to whome where proposed didn't believe in them to financiate them , modern sience proved that his inventions where quite working , I am not proposing to have mass produced units of Da Vinci Inventions , but for example enegeneers operations , fortifications planned by him , the Turkish sovereign for example commisionated him a bridge that had to be called the Golden Horn , but was so modern in concept that the Sultane didn't believe was possible and skipped the idea ..... not Turkish government started to build it ....

Some more realizable , and realized inventions that wouln't unbalance much the game instead are for example :

The Scorpions: machine that can throw darts and stones and arrows...that xcan also destroy the enemy machines...

The Cortalds:
small cannons to be used against ships .

The serpentines:adapt to hit the enemy by far le serpentine,

Incendiary bombs made of carbone, salniter, zoulph, pece, incenso e canfora, keeps burning even underwater ...



While serving as the primary engineer to the Duke of Milan, Ludovico Sforza, da Vinci worked on designs of military tanks, submarines, catapults, and other combat devices.

http://www.engineering.com/content/c...s/war_fig3.jpg

http://www.engineering.com/content/c...ar_vinci10.jpg

http://www.mos.org/leonardo/images/stonethrower2.gif

A letter of which a copy forms part of the celebrated "Codex Atlanticus", in the Ambrosian Library, Milan, has preserved the terms in which Leonardo offered his services to this formidable lord; among other terms were read: (1) I have a process for constructing very light, portable bridges, for the pursuit of the enemy; others more solid, which will resist fire and assault and may be easily set in place and taken to pieces. I also know ways of burning and destroying those of the enemy. . . (4) I can also construct a very manageable piece of artillery which projects inflammable materials, causing great damage to the enemy and also great terror because of the smoke . . . (8)Where the used of cannon is impracticable I can replace them with catapults and engines for casting shafts with wonderful and hitherto unknown effect; briefly, whatever the circumstances I can contrive countless methods of attack. (9) In the event of a naval battle I have numerous engines of great power both for attack and defense: vessels which are proof against the hottest fire, powder or steam. (10) In times of peace I believe that I can equal anyone in architecture, whether for the building of public or private monuments. I sculpture in marble, bronze and terra cotta; in painting I can do what another can do, it matters not who he may be. Moreover I pledge myself to execute a bronze horse to the eternal memory of your father and the very illustrious House of Sforza, and if any of the above things seem impracticable or impossible I offer to give a test of it in your Excellency's park or in any other place pleasing to your lordship, to whom I commend myself in all humility.


Separating Leonardo the peacenik from Leonardo the warmonger is difficult, but there you have it: Many of Leonardo's machines were, in fact, intended to defend his patron and duke of Milan Ludovico Sforza's honor (not to mention Milan itself). He designed both offensive equipment and, in case the enemy hatched the same idea, fortifications and defense machines.

By Leonardo's time, military engineering was the highest of arts. Thus, many of his offensive weapons weren't original per se, but were improvements designed to increase the firepower and speed of some of these more deadly weapons.
Moving across enemy lines: Armored tanks

In his 1482 job letter, Leonardo wrote the following to Ludovico Sforza, the duke of Milan:

I can make armoured cars, safe and unassailable, which will enter the serried ranks of the enemy with their artillery, and there is no company of men at arms so great that they will break it. And behind these the infantry will be able to follow quite unharmed and without any opposition.

This boast wasn't exactly an idle one: Leonardo's armored tank (shown in Figure 1) was, indeed, formidable. Had it not been too heavy to move, it surely would've wiped out enemy troops. Incidentally, Leonardo imagined this tank as a replacement for the elephant!

http://media.wiley.com/assets/467/18...837-5_0802.jpg


Leonardo wasn't the first to work on the idea of a tank; some inventors before him had designed several sail-powered tanks, none of which ever saw the light of day. But around 1487, Leonardo invented a new kind of tank. His model showed a four-wheeled vehicle powered by animals or humans (it required eight men!) turning cranks attached to different kinds of wheels. The tank had holes at the base for firing cannons and a turret at the top for observation and more shooting. The body itself was turtle-shaped, reinforced with metal plates and armed with guns. But the design had a fatal flaw. The front and rear wheels were geared to turn in opposite directions.

Despite its flaws, Leonardo's design (which no one built during his lifetime) served as a model 400 years later for tanks that saw action during World War I.


Storming walls

During the Middle Ages, people had built fortified castles to protect villagers. At the first sign of danger, folks would hightail it up the hill to the castle and hide out in its confines. Then, after first trampling or burning the village below, the enemy would arrive at the fortress, ask for surrender, and if the answer was no, storm its walls with a battering ram, light it on fire, shoot at it, or tunnel underneath it — and either make it in, or not.

By the time of the Renaissance, much of Europe — and almost all of Italy, with its belligerent city-states — was at war. Compared with armies from the Middle Ages, Renaissance-era armies were more orderly , tactical entities that, in turn, required more effective weapons. Besides the obvious (such as simple rope ladders for attacking walls), Leonardo developed some innovations for storming walls:

* A battering ram: A wheel-mounted frame fitted with a bridge that could span a moat and lean up against enemy walls.

* Scaling ladders: By Leonardo's time, scaling ladders (kind of like today's hook-and-ladder, which allows people to climb over high walls or knock down an enemy's ladders while firing missiles at them!) were in full use. Some were mounted on mobile platforms, making them more difficult to knock over. Others used baskets to lift men over the walls. Leonardo added a few new elements to these models. He designed rigid ladders, some with grappling hooks to attach to the wall, and others with spikes to hook into the ground. He based many of these designs on the scaling ladders presented in Roberto Valturio's treatise On Things Military (1472).

But what if the enemy used the same type of equipment? Leonardo took a few precautions and designed some countermeasures, including a large cog that unbalanced attackers from the wall and toppled them over the side.
Diving 20,000 leagues under the sea: The submarine

Around 1515, Leonardo drew a submarine. He described it as a "ship to sink another ship." Leo's sub was a shell with room for one person inside, but it couldn't — like modern submarines — submerge completely. Had he built it, it may have worked with the proper power source. It sank (or, may have sunk) other ships by ramming into them.

Leonardo's model of a submarine differed just a tad from the submarine that Jules Verne depicted in 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea. No gigantic sea monsters threatened it, either. But it was still more or less a submarine — one that predated the real submarine by more than 100 years. (That honor went to a Dutch inventor, Cornelius van Drebbel, in 1624. However, no one used a sub in combat until 1776, three years after an American, David Bushnell, invented his wood-and-propeller sub.)

Although Leonardo's submarine never made it off paper, Leo was commemorated during World War II, when Italy named one of its hero subs (it sunk 17 Allied ships) the Leonardo da Vinci.
Improving cannons and prefiguring the machine gun

Cannons weren't all that practical on the battlefield in Leonardo's day, mostly because of their weight and lengthy loading time. They were cast iron or bronze, with a short barrel and a short range. So Leonardo experimented with already existing models to find ways to improve upon them. Thus he designed a breech-loading cannon and a three-barreled cannon, measured the power of a missile, and even reportedly launched a rocket-powered cannonball 10,000 feet into the air! He even may have tested one of his more innovative designs — a steam-powered cannon. Ever thoughtful, Leonardo also invented a hoist for lifting cannons and a model to improve the ignition of firearms. Historians generally agree that Leonardo's ideas (never tested, of course) were as sophisticated as those of an artillerist in the mid-1800s!

In his letter to the duke of Milan, Ludovico Sforza, Leonardo boasted of his skills in making fast, light, and accurate firearms — should the use of cannons become impractical in emergency situations. A few of his designs prefigured the modern machine guns:

* A front-loading firearm that had an adjustable gear with a peg-blocking system, intended to be used by soldiers

* An adjustable and relatively light eight-barreled gun made up of small muzzles mounted on a two-wheeled carriage

* A 33-barreled machine gun, mounted on a revolving framework, that could fire 11 shots simultaneously

* A split-trail gun carriage, with a mechanism that allowed for greater angles of rotation and elevation

As far as gunpowder goes, Leonardo designed shells that exploded immediately and others that coughed out large balls that then coughed out smaller explosives. Leonardo also invented the wheel-lock, a better system than the flintlock, for igniting the gunpowder.

Yes Leonardo Da Vinci was amazing but unfortunately M2TW will only have limited possibilities for its units. Both the number as their 'behavior' is limited. For the latter: so no submarines, helicopters or robot soldiers (yes he created a kind of robot)
For problem with the number of units: M2TW has only a limited number of units in the game that can't be increased (or only to a certain number). This limited number of units has to include a balanced mix of units of all the 21 factions. This in it self will be hard enough and there will be a lot of historical (important) units that won't be included in the game. So IMO there is no room for fantasy units or units that were only used on a very tiny scale if this means that other more widely used units won't be include in M2TW. CA does this already by it self (screeching women, flaming pigs, elephant mounted cannons, that big cross in the screenshots, ...), no need to include more of those. Thank god for the realism mods.

P.S. If I have insulted you I'm sorry but unless you can prove to me that one of Da Vinci's inventions was used on a fairly large basis (regular use in at least one country over at least a decade) I stand by my opinion.

Milan is enough I think , that could be special feature of the Milanese government , I am not talking of helicopters or tanks but may be about serpentines and stuff like that....

It would be nice to see specific examples of his work, perhaps confined to certain cities.

Listen, if Archimedes death ray and steam cannon were left out of RTW; then there is not going to be Da Vinci's tank.

Maybe his fortifications though. Those were used.

Just because he can draw these things doesn't mean they could have been made, don't forget he was an artist. That giant crossbow thing... how on earth would it be easily transported? It would need an army of horses, and would need super flat, wide roads. Every time it went over a bump, half the horses would probably be pulled over.

That armoured tank... Far, far to heavy to move, and even if you could get enough men inside it so you could move, it would probably just sink in to the ground and get stuck in small holes. It would also probably disintegrate after a few blasts of a cannon. A cannon can be attached to a ship, but a small round wooden ball? Never... Even the first WWI tanks often got stuck, and they had metal shells, tracks and a huge engine!

How many of these actually got made? You say "Leonardo boasted of his skills in making fast, light, and accurate firearms" and also that he "designed shells that exploded immediately and others that coughed out large balls that then coughed out smaller explosives", but did any of these get made? Did even a prototype get made?

I see you've done a lot of work on that post, but these weapons mostly never existed in reality, or were never used en masse in war.

If you can prove that is not true and can find a weapon which does not fit that description, then I'd support you in wanting it in MTW2 or a later mod.

of course... there could always be a "Da Vinci Mod"...

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don't forget he was an artist

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Lol I suspect you don't know who was Leonardo Da vinci .... :laugh4:

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that big cross in the screenshots

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Going a bit off-topic and nitpicking again, but if you 're referring to the same screenshot that I saw, then I must point out that the big cross was a carroccio, a very important communal symbol in medieval Italy. The milanese one (dedicated to Sant'Ambrogio) had quite a few stories attached to it about its role in Legnano (link in italian).

Hmmm... this appeares to be largely plagiarized...

The Bulk of it comes from the book "Da Vinci for Dummies," and I found other bits in the Catholic Encyclopaedia, though this may not be the original location.


Just saying... some quote marks and due credit given to the authors would have been good...

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Originally Posted by L'Impresario

Going a bit off-topic and nitpicking again, but if you 're referring to the same screenshot that I saw, then I must point out that the big cross was a carroccio, a very important communal symbol in medieval Italy. The milanese one (dedicated to Sant'Ambrogio) had quite a few stories attached to it about its role in Legnano (link in italian).

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If such a cross did appear in battles then I don't have a problem with it. I just (and maybe wrongfully) assumed that this was a unit that CA introduced for gameplay reasons rather than historical reasons.

In the screenshots and video where I saw it, the cross was used by the English presumably on a crusade (desert battle against the egyptians).

I'm pretty sure Leanardo was employed seriously by variously Italian city-states to build weapons.

He did work as an inventor, but he didnt build many things. He just wrote up some design plans that, while being very extravagent, wouldnt have worked anyway.

Hows that for a first post. The kiwi has arrived here :bounce:

Welcome amadkiwi to the .Org.

Are you the bird, the fruit or just an inhabitant of New Zealand?

Mabye a random event similar to plague which could increase the valor of a unit or mabye the weapon or defense level.

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Originally Posted by Peasant Phill

Are you the bird, the fruit or just an inhabitant of New Zealand?

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I am a kiwi. That is all I am, and all I will ever be. I will however, one day be undisputed lord of the universe, with the power of life and death for billions of people. But for now, I am content with being just a kiwi.