Censorship, the USA and 'Shrub'

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A SECOND World War documentary by a leading American film-maker is at the centre of a looming battle over standards of decency on American television.

The War, by Ken Burns, which includes veterans using profanities to describe their experiences on the front line, has become a test case in the Government’s crackdown on indecency on the air. The 14-hour series, created by the documentarian known for his epic television histories Jazz, Baseball and The Civil War, is scheduled to be broadcast on public television stations in September next year.

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He said he was flabbergasted that FCC policy was being applied to documentaries, particularly after President Bush was caught on camera using a vulgarity in a conversation with Tony Blair at the recent G8 summit in St Petersburg, Russia.

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linky

The Pilgrim Fathers must be proud of their legacy. I am amazed how puritanical America can be. Show a bit of tit or swear on telly and all hell breaks loose. It surely is a country of contradictions.

So should the 'offensive' words be, not only, bleeped out but the mouth pixellated as well, or should the documentary be allowed to be broadcast unedited?

I say show it unabridged, after all these guys fought to secure freedom of speech and war is hell!

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He said he was flabbergasted that FCC policy was being applied to documentaries, particularly after President Bush was caught on camera using a vulgarity in a conversation with Tony Blair at the recent G8 summit in St Petersburg, Russia.

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Eh? Didn't realise Americans used flabbergasted, thought that was just brits.

We all know that grandads don't swear, and never have. Even during the D-Day landings.

I would hate to see TV viewers in America learning that the people who fight and have fought for their country are in fact real people, not all-American robots made up to look like Tom Hanks.

I'm a four times (soon to be 5) grandad and I got a warning for swearing here......:oops: :sweatdrop:

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Originally Posted by InsaneApache

The Pilgrim Fathers must be proud of their legacy. I am amazed how puritanical America can be. Show a bit of tit or swear on telly and all hell breaks loose. It surely is a country of contradictions.

So should the 'offensive' words be, not only, bleeped out but the mouth pixellated as well, or should the documentary be allowed to be broadcast unedited?

I say show it unabridged, after all these guys fought to secure freedom of speech and war is hell!

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You'd be better off not bringing in the founding fathers in your argument...

They saw no contradiction between freedom of speech, and indecency and blasphemy laws... :wink:

Who mentioned the founding fathers? :inquisitive:

Weak. Next we will be required by law to wear only black and white.

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Originally Posted by InsaneApache

Who mentioned the founding fathers? :inquisitive:

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My bad, you said "Pilgrim fathers".

Completely different... :oops:

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Originally Posted by Slyspy

We all know that grandads don't swear, and never have. Even during the D-Day landings.

I would hate to see TV viewers in America learning that the people who fight and have fought for their country are in fact real people, not all-American robots made up to look like Tom Hanks.

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Funny you should mention Tom Hanks. ABC wanted to show an uncut "Saving Private Ryan" on the air for Veteran's Day. Due to the Bono rule (no F-bombs), many affiliates refused to show it for fear of FCC fines. Showing a soldier looking around on a beach for his arm = OK, showing Vin Diesel dropping curse words = bad.

Nothing to see here, move along. The protectors of our freedom are watching out for us. :rolleyes:

When my grandad was in the RAF in WW2 he would always tell me stories about his flights over Myanmar, getting shot down by a Zero, Landing Bruised and Bloody behind Enemy Lines, and getting rescued by an ANZAC Platoon. Now he started telling me these stories when I was about 4 years old, and didn't spare any of the details, including swearing like he was still there. For an old Brit, my Grandad sure had a dirty mouth :laugh4:

Us Brits don't swear ... we just express ourselves colourfully :laugh4:

For an old Brit, my Grandad sure had a dirty mouth
Now that is wierd .
many years ago I worked with a machine driver who never swore ,unless he was talkng about Japan(which he didn't like to talk about unless some gobshite was talinig about how good war was) ,yet another old fella from the same village was known as effing Ted , who in normal tea break conversaton once used the F word 68 times in 5 minutes .
The village was Overton BTW , just over the hill from where Craterus lives .
I would swear that effing ted is the charchter that Whitehouse used as Ted in his comedy show .

Is the FCC funded by tax money ??

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Originally Posted by TB666

Is the FCC funded by tax money ??

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It is a federal regulatory agency, so yes it is funded by tax money (and judging by the increased fines, it is being funded by potty mouths and breast exposers as well).

FCC policy makes absolutely no sense. They wouldn't allow networks to show "7", not because of the violence, that was fine (and I found it rather disturbing) but the language. Un-freaking believable. It's okay to show a man who was forced to use a straight razor to peel a pound of flesh from his body (and bled to death), but you can't say the f-word. This I have never understood about America.

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Originally Posted by drone

It is a federal regulatory agency, so yes it is funded by tax money (and judging by the increased fines, it is being funded by potty mouths and breast exposers as well).

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Wow, what a waste of money.:wall:

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Originally Posted by TB666

Wow, what a waste of money.:wall:

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Well, fining CBS for Nipplegate and taking complaints from prudes isn't the FCC's only job. They are responsible for regulating the radio wave spectrum, determining which frequencies are to be used by whom, as well as telecomm communication across the US. They license TV and radio stations and make sure transmitters of all kinds don't step on each other, by both frequency and location/power. Most of this nobody cares about, but is very important work.

Two big political issues have brought the FCC to the front. Stepping up the indecency fines/censorship on public airwaves (not paid-for cable TV or encrypted broadcasts like satelite TV/radio), and media consolodation (allowing single corporations to own a large percentage of the broadcast licenses in an area). The first has all the shock jocks and TV stations in an uproar, the second means everybody in the country has fewer real choices on what to watch or listen to.

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Originally Posted by Don Corleone

FCC policy makes absolutely no sense. They wouldn't allow networks to show "7", not because of the violence, that was fine (and I found it rather disturbing) but the language. Un-freaking believable. It's okay to show a man who was forced to use a straight razor to peel a pound of flesh from his body (and bled to death), but you can't say the f-word. This I have never understood about America.

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Probably due to the large Christian influence. Also, there can be a dozen brutal murders, but no sex!

DC's got my opinion pretty nicely wrapped up. I don't understand most of what the Federal government does but it is for the morally retarded majority.

The FCC had been getting more and more lax 'til Bush came in. W/ indecency, I think there is much confusion regarding the law. Only profane material can be made illegal, and that has to pass some very strinent tests; 'snuff' pornography is not illegal as far as I recall. Airing indecent material only results in fines during normal broadcasting hours. Why it's alright for children to see violence but not mild sexual themes is beyond logic, it's more a matter of gun-bunny-culture.

I agree the FCC's priorities are skewed, but I'm always amused at how the Europeans are so bothered by this. It isn't your massive tax dollars going into this sinkhole!

And I'm curious. I've heard that as a rule Europe is less concerned about language/sex and more leery of violence. However, would Saving Private Ryan come under fire for its violence over there? Or do you guys just allow everything?

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Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good

I agree the FCC's priorities are skewed, but I'm always amused at how the Europeans are so bothered by this. It isn't your massive tax dollars going into this sinkhole!

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The US is a major exporter of film, tv-series etc. So whatever taboo you have, the sight of it comes to us.
Besides if our cousins got silly habits, it's our duty to laugh at them :laugh4: .

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Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good

And I'm curious. I've heard that as a rule Europe is less concerned about language/sex and more leery of violence. However, would Saving Private Ryan come under fire for its violence over there? Or do you guys just allow everything?

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It's more relaxed on a general basis, atleast in Sweden, the violence censorship died out for more than a decade ago.

I think you can put it as anything that can hit mainstream in any country is acceptable, as long as it's considered a good film by the critics. But everything isn't allowed.

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Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good

And I'm curious. I've heard that as a rule Europe is less concerned about language/sex and more leery of violence. However, would Saving Private Ryan come under fire for its violence over there? Or do you guys just allow everything?

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Of course we don't allow everything. Some impressions from a German:
As a rule you could say that nudity is more accepted than graphic violence, in main stream TV that is. We have a rating for Movies in Cinema, similar to the Us system but rather more liberal, of course. :wink:
Language is seldom cause for debate but saying the F-word prior to 22:00 is a Taboo. After 23:00 you can broadcast everything: language, violence and even soft porn (no visible intercourse, no errected penis, no detail shots of female genitalia). Hardcore is restricted to Pay-TV. That's not to say that full frontal nudity isn't shown prior to 22:00. It depends. Partial nudity like bare breasts are fairly common prior to that time. In fact there are some commercials where bare male butts or bare female breasts can be seen. You could say that I see bare breasts on TV almost every day, without looking out for them especially.
Some boulevard magazines frequently test the acceptance of Germans by having a girl go topless through the downtown area and the crew films the reactions of pedestrians, or something similar. :rolleyes: The usual reaction being that when a girl is attractive it's ok. :laugh4:
In case of Private Ryan I faintly remember that there's concern about the rather graphic violence in the initial scene. Iirc, it was shown after 22:00.
The swearing wasn't a problem at all, but you have to keep in mind that almost all movies that make it to the German cinema are syncronized. The swearing would be translated, too and perhaps toned down while at it. We also have some minor swears that would be perfectly acceptable in the afternoon. Sometimes scenes get cut out to show the movie earlier than 22:00.
We've had movies like Seven, Privat Ryan, Pulp Fiction etc. all on major TV stations. 24 is still running and has caused a debate about torture.

In my opinion, the European society, sees violence as a bad influence on children and weak minded. Those are being protected by regulations. But the liberties of the rest of us are conserved by setting the broadcast time limit.
Nudity is a natural thing and most of us probably have grown up seeing their parents nude or their siblings. We (Well some of us) have a a culture of lying nude at nudist beaches, topless sunbathing is a common thing at German beaches. Playboy and Penthouse sometimes have huge commercial ads at bus stations (no exposed breasts here, sorry). If ads like these are too revealing they provoke reactions by Feminist organizations which has led to some bans in the past. The Europeans discuss these things without much hysteria most of the time.

Planning to come to Germany anybody? :wink:

The Belgian situation is much like the one in Germany. There are some small differences however. Firstly movies are not being synchronized but subtitled so any cursing or the likes stays. Secondly most movies on TV around 21.00. Saving private Ryan, Se7en, basic instinct,... you name it. I have to admit that most of those movies only start closer to 22.00 but still I remember seeing the beginning of basic instinct when I was 12 or 13.
Nudity is more accepted in Europe. Almost all Belgian movies have scenes with nudity, references to sex or the act itself. Those scenes are shot tastefully and add something to the story. Why shouldn't there be nudity in movies and TV shows, nudity is part of our every day life. From showering after sports to walking on the beach. What is so shameful about our body that it should be hidden for our children?

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What is so shameful about our body that it should be hidden for our children?

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Wait until you get past 45. :sweatdrop:

Generally in Europe they are a little less concerned with making life than taking it.

The UK is about halfway between the prudish and hypocritical US side and the more sensible European side.

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Originally Posted by InsaneApache

Wait until you get past 45. :sweatdrop:

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It shames me to say but my father of 50 years old probably looks better nude than I do. But never fear I won't post a photo:laugh4:

Just to add a little 'flaw' to the German system described by R'as al Ghul: Violence does get edited out of some movies if it's too extreme. One example that comes to mind is the movie Braveheart. There are two beheadings in the movie, both of them are not directly shown, at least in the edited TV version I watched. Are you able to see those things in the US on the normal TV channels? (No HBO, or what-not)

I just remember watching 'Dumb and Dumber' in the US and thinking to myself: How can you possibly edit anything out of that movie? Well, I was wrong: The beheaded/taped bird with the blind girl did not make an appearance. The policeman drinking the piss did not make an appearance. Jim Carrey peeing on the bike to keep war did not make an appearance either.

After that I stuck to Pay-TV during my US stay, so I'm curious what would happen to Saving Private Ryan in American Free-TV?

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Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good

I agree the FCC's priorities are skewed, but I'm always amused at how the Europeans are so bothered by this. It isn't your massive tax dollars going into this sinkhole!

And I'm curious. I've heard that as a rule Europe is less concerned about language/sex and more leery of violence. However, would Saving Private Ryan come under fire for its violence over there? Or do you guys just allow everything?

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According to Portuguese television law after 10 pm everything goes except for porn...(porn by law can only be played in PPV channels)....but most tv channels exercise self restraint and hold off some movies til midnight.


P.S.- and to think a couple of years ago Porn could be played legally over free-access tv...sniff...sniff.....damn right wing maniacs!!!






....well I guess that´s what the internet is there for :D

Exactly. There are so many choices now days that no one in a developed country can complain about not seeing enough boobies on broadcast TV (well, maybe we can still complain ~D) . Pay the extra money or get the internet. :2thumbsup: