Greek Factions....

now im not a great guy on greek history but, shouldnt there be a Spartan City State faction and an Athenian City State Faction? i never knew that the Greeks became a league...

btw please (if you do) do this after 0.8 we have been waiting long.

One, this would require a faction slot that isn't available. Two, at the start of the game, the cities were in a league/alliance/thing, though sparta was in it for only a short time.

hm... what about taking out Numidia? (or the name it was called)


then it would be nice if this is true Sparta and Athens should start in a alliance

We've already replaced Numidia with Bactria.

doh!! i forget...

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Originally Posted by The Spartan

hm... what about taking out Numidia? (or the name it was called)


then it would be nice if this is true Sparta and Athens should start in a alliance

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Neither Sparta nor Athens was the power they were during the Peloponesian war. They need to be united to stand a chance of breaking the Makedonians. It seems a bit of a waste to spend two factions slots on two not-very-powerful city states that aren't going to accomplish anything other than providing a temporary speedbump to Makedon, and there are far more worthy candidates to fill those slots. In the end the EB team seems to have dediced on a compromise: they have a Greek faction, one that actually stands a chance of expanding and is based on a historical alliance, but unlike in history the alliance cannot be disbanded.

well im curious.
what happend to the Spartan and Athenian city states?

Go to the EB website and you can learn a lot about the history of the faction we represent. There is an introduction to each faction, a history of each faction, and then a summary of their units. There's a lot of information there! :grin:

Even as it stands, the KH very rarely expand to have an empire. The best they can usually do is to take southern greece and then grab a few other coastal provinces here and there. There are always exceptions, but mostly they collapse like they did in reality.

I can't wait for 0.8. Naval Invasion AI! Even after being just reduced to Rhodes (As always happens in my Campaigns pretty much), they might still become a power by invading a coast somewhere. They might even take over Crete (Again it never happens).

they seem to collapse within the first few turns pretty regularly--in most campaigns Byzantion puts up a better fight than the whole KH (there are pleasant exceptions, of course), but that should be helped by making the maks a little more vulnerable in their start position, right?

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Originally Posted by paullus

they seem to collapse within the first few turns pretty regularly--in most campaigns Byzantion puts up a better fight than the whole KH (there are pleasant exceptions, of course), but that should be helped by making the maks a little more vulnerable in their start position, right?

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History first ~;)

Although the Maks will be a bit more vulnerable in 0.8 (or there are plans for it), as Macedonia was particularly vulnerable towards Epeiros at this time.

And yeah, think we would have rather gone for Aetolian League or Pergamon instead of splitting Athens & Sparta into a faction each, as the two former did a lot more on the political scene.

OK I have a question?

Are the Greek Units STILL going to be speaking in Latin? Or are u guys still working on changing that?

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Originally Posted by NeoSpartan

OK I have a question?

Are the Greek Units STILL going to be speaking in Latin? Or are u guys still working on changing that?

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Please.. we're professionals.



So, yes. That was just a culture problem in 1.2 but seeing as we can switch and swap factions around 7 cultures we won't have that problem at all.

Foot

hm.
i think we can fix it now.
go to descr_sm_factions.txt (in the Eb data folder)
it will still show vanila factions so choose which vanila faction the Romani replaced.
once your there, where it says culture, change it to Roman.
that should work.

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Originally Posted by The Spartan

hm.
i think we can fix it now.
go to descr_sm_factions.txt (in the Eb data folder)
it will still show vanila factions so choose which vanila faction the Romani replaced.
once your there, where it says culture, change it to Roman.
that should work.

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oh no I aint messing with them codes..... I'll just wait for 0.8

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Originally Posted by Europa Barbarorum Website

The former Greek faction is now made up of Athens, Sparta, and Rhodes. This selection has been chosen to represent the alliance formed by several poleis of Hellas prior to the outbreak of the Chremonidean War (c.266-260). The war is named after Chremonides, the Athenian statesman who formed the alliance in an effort to counter the threat of Makedonian hegemony.

The alliance of these three city states brings together political entities that were not entirely cooperative (to put it mildly) during this time period, but they were not openly hostile to each other and they did agree very shortly after the opening of the game to ally themselves alongside the Ptolemaioi to fight the Makedonians....

... . The term 'Alliance of the Hellenes' or 'Koinon Hellenon' will represent this alliance better in the long run than a temporary 'Chremodian Alliance' would.

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This is the reasoning behind the Koinon Hellenon per here.

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Originally Posted by The Spartan

hm.
i think we can fix it now.
go to descr_sm_factions.txt (in the Eb data folder)
it will still show vanila factions so choose which vanila faction the Romani replaced.
once your there, where it says culture, change it to Roman.
that should work.

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That's all you have to do?

oh yeah, try it please.
i dont have EB installed right now.

The "culture" line in RTW1.2 descr_sm_factions.txt is nonexistant; it only appears with the 1.5 and 1.6 patches. I'm pretty sure it would have been changed by the team if it was there.

yeah thats what i was fearing.

I was wondering if the speeches were ever going to get changed although impossible to understand it would be nice to hear a greek speech.

There was a question a while back about what happened to Sparta and Athens after their power leading up to the Peloponnesian wars and given that it's or particular interest to me I felt I should comment. Essentially what happened to them was each other. Sparta seeing the rise of Athens in the face of their own stagnation chose to bring together other similarily worried city-states to destroy Athens without any real plan as to how they'd do this, as such they failed their mighty phalanx being rather ineffective against Athen's walls. Athens on the other hand was also at a similar loss as to how it might use it's supirior naval forces to undo Sparta. So for the earlier part of the war nothing of consequence actually happened except for huge expenses incurred on both sides and the plague in Athens while the gates were shut to the Spartans. However the repeated arrival year after year of the Spartan forces to deny Athenian access to their surrounding lands did start to wear Athens down in that it made them less patient and more bold. One battle that was close to ending it early was one against Thebes where the Athenians had managed to seperate them from their Spartan allies and bring them into battle something which ended in defeat for Athens but one of little consequence as they still had the all important walls and fleet. Later though Athens would go further afield in their search to weaken Sparta and eventually would find their way to Syracus and their disaster, if there was one foe that could be said to have tipped things in favor of Sparta it was Syracus, who had originally been more of a bystander then anything but was brought into the war by Athenian agression in the form of an invasion force which failed utterly bringing disaster to the army and fleet. Since this was the first real success had against the Athenian fleet in some time it was now that the Persians became interested and started to pour money into funding Spartan naval ambitions which being of Spartan origin naturally had a very poor start. The Athenian fleet would face both disaster and a number of miraculous victories where they should have lost but managed to pull though but eventually things fell apart for Athens and their fleet was finally destroyed. Sparta won... sorta. You see the problem was Sparta was still just as much a backwards and stagnant society as before and no victory would change that, indeed Persian gold won the war for them, not their own skill at arms. Furthermore the thing about Athens that made it so scary for the Spartans was what saved it from razing and in the end managed to undermine the Spartans even more was the sheer magnificance of the city and the culture within, even through war it had remained the cultural capital of greece. The power of Athens was broken, and Sparta continued it's decline there was a power vaccum... which is where Phillip of Macadon steps in and the rest they say is history.

Nice post, if a little hard to read.

I should start learning more about ancient Greek history, it looks just as interesting as Roman history is.

True. But I would just point out that after the Peleponnesian War Sparta was the dominant power in Greece, until Epaminondas, a Theban general defeated them at Leuctra in 371 BC. Thebes then became the dominant power, which Athens & Sparta allied against. The intermittent warfare between the city-states in the end weakened them and thus Phillip II and Macedon came on the scene.

Yeah sorry about that I was just typing away more or less without attention to formatting.

To Krusader I would say this, while certainly Sparta held more sway then any of the other city states after the war it was still nothing like the presence Athens had had on the scene when it was on top, at that point I think there was some understanding that Sparta didn't really have the power to enforce any strict control over Hellas.

What I also find interesting is that in the end the same thing happened with Macedonian power, when Alexander died the empire shattered and exhausted itself trying to fight the other parts. While certainly they remained powerful foes I think that by the time the Romans started to come into their part of the world they were so exhausted with the constant off and on fighting between the successor empires and the city states that it was more or less of an easy ride for the Romans.

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Originally Posted by Amur_Tiger

While certainly they remained powerful foes I think that by the time the Romans started to come into their part of the world they were so exhausted with the constant off and on fighting between the successor empires and the city states that it was more or less of an easy ride for the Romans.

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That much is true, since the romans had a much harder time conquering the barbarian tribes in Iberia, Gaul and Britannia (and Germania for the brief period that was under roman control) than fighting the successor states in the east and in Egypt.

Should they had stood together, there may have never been Islam. :juggle2:

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Originally Posted by k_raso

That much is true, since the romans had a much harder time conquering the barbarian tribes in Iberia, Gaul and Britannia (and Germania for the brief period that was under roman control) than fighting the successor states in the east and in Egypt.

Should they had stood together, there may have never been Islam. :juggle2:

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Well actually you're early. Had Rome stayed together they might have defeated Islam. Its a shame Demetrius' decendants could never hold a large Empire together, his was the most stable dynasty.

Hey... Imagine if it had been the Greeks instead of the Romans that forged the empire the Romans eventually did... And had held onto it... Then there might not be christianity OR Islam! My god, the world would be perfect.

no i dont think so.
St. Peter influenced Greeks and many turned to Christianity. (he spoke Greek himself. i think he is Greek)

With the (I can't be bothed the spell it) the Greek Alliance I think that if they must be one faction put one of the Greek Cities on the verge of rebellion e.g. Sparta. Then it seperates and becomes part of the (again I can't be bothered to spell it) Rebels henceforth rebresenting the end of the allience.