Attacking timeline?

Hi all,

I am relatively new to MTW, but I just can't stop playing it! :2thumbsup:

I was just wondering how long you build up before going after a faction? For example I began by playing the English in Early on Normal setting. After failing to take out the French before being excommunicated about 4 times, I re-loaded and built up carefully. Then by using the excellent strategy (posted here) of killing off the royal line, I was able to take them out at a more leisurely pace ("why, your holiness, I am not familiar with that Catholic nation to which you are referring. All I see are a bunch of rebels!" You gotta love that! :laugh4: )

Anyway, now I have control of most of the French territories (a few are rebels), but I am depleted in terms of cash and manpower and the HRE is sitting there looking very ominous. This is in about year 1098. I am afraid now that if I disband some mercs, draw down my forces a bit and try to build infrastrucure, the HRE will tear through me without so much as a "by your leave"

Did I attack too early?

Any advice/thoughts would be welcome.

I am pretty sure that you did not attack too early - infact it may have been too late. All the factions (when played by us and not the AI) have an inital "land grab". For the English it is the French (and vice-versa) when the Spanish it is usually the Aragonese or Elmos (etc etc).

This is due to your neighbours not having that much in the way of a military might nor infrastructure either. Given that you can usually rout the AI on even terms.

Now that the Frenchies are gone (for now!!!) I would say mop up the Rebels and this should secure your borders - and if happiness in the provinces are good there should be no re-emergence of the French. That should allow you to move the better (non-garrison) troops to the front line whilst you consolidate your holdings.

Unlike RTW you do need to consolidate in MTW as otherwise you will be stretched too thin and run over by one faction or another.

A largeish army parked on your borders that moves to mirror any movements by neighbouring armies may also deter plans of invasion by the AI.

Start pumping out the ships and traders (sea trade is the cash master) - particularly if you can get an unbroken line of boats to the baltic or near egypt.

Ohh and keep an eye on the spanish/elmos (who ever is winning in the iberian) as they can come-a-knocking unexpectedly.

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Originally Posted by Maharajah

I was just wondering how long you build up before going after a faction?

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Depends entirely on which faction you're playing. Some factions need to rush their neighbours and 'landgrab' or their economy will stagnate and they will quickly be annexed. For example the Danes, the Aragonese, the Polish and the Turks among others. Other factions can concentrate on teching up within their starting provinces and securing their borders, examples being the HRE, the Egyptians, the Almohads and the Byzantine Empire.

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Originally Posted by Maharajah

For example I began by playing the English in Early on Normal setting. After failing to take out the French before being excommunicated about 4 times, I re-loaded and built up carefully. Then by using the excellent strategy (posted here) of killing off the royal line, I was able to take them out at a more leisurely pace ("why, your holiness, I am not familiar with that Catholic nation to which you are referring. All I see are a bunch of rebels!" You gotta love that! :laugh4: )

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Assassination is a good and valid tactic, and the best way to avoid getting excommunicated. The problem is that it is often a very slow process training up those assassins to the stage where they can finish off monarchs or even their heirs, and a simple border fort can put paid to all those years of training in one year. to avoid excommunication attacking two provinces at once, and assaulting directly afterwards will mean that you will receive the warning from the pope and not be able to attack in 10 years, but will have taken the provinces anyway and not need to worry about it. You can then proceed to attack another catholic faction and recieve another papal warning. i.e, you could take anjou and tolouse from the french assault those, then the following year attack and assault Aragon.

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Originally Posted by Maharajah

Anyway, now I have control of most of the French territories (a few are rebels), but I am depleted in terms of cash and manpower and the HRE is sitting there looking very ominous. This is in about year 1098. I am afraid now that if I disband some mercs, draw down my forces a bit and try to build infrastrucure, the HRE will tear through me without so much as a "by your leave"

Did I attack too early?

Any advice/thoughts would be welcome.

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The English and the French fit the category of those that need to rush their neighbours, but they are not in such a desperate situation as the one province factions, nor can they afford to rush too soon. The English really do need to wipe out, or at least suppress, the French ASAP though, because war with them is inevitable and they will end up launching a sneak attack into your vulnerable continental provinces. As the English you should push out Fyrdmen (or Feudal Sergeants if you don't have VI), UM, Hobilars and archers, and rush the French provinces ASAP. A two front attack is necessary, as this will prevent him consolidating his forces, and you should make for Ile de France early on. In the south you should take Tolouse also. After this you have them badly weakened and should be able to clean up. You need to act fast, attack assault and end it, before the pope starts to complain. Both Navarre and Aragon are good early aquisitions, because the Spanish will backdoor you if you're not careful. As the French it's a similar strategy except that you should hit the province of Anjou to cut the English continental provinces in half, followed by aquitain which now cannot be relieved, making sure that flanders is well garrissoned to prevent any invasion coming from Britain. Normandy is not a priority, if you're careful about it, Brittany can take care of itself for the time being, it is more important to unite the southern provinces. On top of all of this you will have to watch the HRE as well. War with them is a bit of a lottery. For both factions shipping is important, to protect their coastlines.

Hey, Maharajah, good to see you made it here! I'm glad you're enjoying MTW so much. ~:cheers:

El Diablo has given you pretty sound advice. The only thing I can think of to add is that you should hold onto your sea provinces with trade goods at all costs, particularly Flanders (Acquitaine and Tolouse are valuable as well, however). These are your big moneymakers once you start getting some ships in the water.

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Ohh and keep an eye on the spanish/elmos (who ever is winning in the iberian) as they can come-a-knocking unexpectedly.

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This is important to keep in mind as well. Depending on which version of the game you have, one of those two factions (the Almohads or the Spanish) will probably conquer the Iberian peninsula, and it's usually only a matter of time before they decide to lead an army across the Pyrenees into southern France. You probably don't need to worry about them just yet, but sooner or later--oftentimes sooner--one of those factions will become a major threat.

Good luck in your English campaign, Maharajah!

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Originally Posted by Martok

Depending on which version of the game you have, one of those two factions (the Almohads or the Spanish) will probably conquer the Iberian peninsula, and it's usually only a matter of time before they decide to lead an army across the Pyrenees into southern France. You probably don't need to worry about them just yet, but sooner or later--oftentimes sooner--one of those factions will become a major threat.

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If you've got VI, its the Spanish (usually). Armies of armoured and upgraded weapon jinettes and royal knights are very unpleasant (and the Spanish breed like rabbits). They can get quite powerful, and they absolutely love crusading against you when you're excommed. Keep a wary eye.

In my experience, the HRE may look dark, evil, and overwhelming, but if it comes to war, they're the much easier target. Beat them down one or twice, and take a territory, and the crumble into civil war faster than any other faction in the game. Then you can pick and choose where you want to expand. But for my money, I'd worry more about the Spaniards (or the Almos if they manage to win out--more frequent in early versions) than the HRE.

Have fun!

If you want another experience, I'd recommend trying Viking Horde's XL mod. It removes the landbridges and adds many more factions. Very well done mod. You can get it here.

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Originally Posted by danfda

If you've got VI, its the Spanish (usually). Armies of armoured and upgraded weapon jinettes and royal knights are very unpleasant (and the Spanish breed like rabbits). They can get quite powerful, and they absolutely love crusading against you when you're excommed. Keep a wary eye.

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Yeah, in the original Medieval, the Almos rampage all over the map and are pretty hard to stop. In Viking Invasion, however, they were pretty much nerfed; it's a big reason why the Spanish usually walk all over them. What I like about the XL Mod is that makes the Almos strong again, but not overwhelmingly so like they are in the original game.

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Originally Posted by danfda

In my experience, the HRE may look dark, evil, and overwhelming, but if it comes to war, they're the much easier target. Beat them down one or twice, and take a territory, and the crumble into civil war faster than any other faction in the game. Then you can pick and choose where you want to expand.

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Agreed. As I've found out in my current Bohemian campaign, the HRE generally collapses very swiftly once things start to go wrong for them.

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Originally Posted by danfda

If you want another experience, I'd recommend trying Viking Horde's XL mod. It removes the landbridges and adds many more factions. Very well done mod. You can get it here.

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I'll second, third, and fourth that. Getting the XL Mod has vastly improved my playing experience (in what is already an excellent game). Anyone who doesn't already have a mod installed should try this one out. :2thumbsup:

Remember to micromanage governors if you are short on cash, especially for high income provinces. This can increase your income a lot. Be careful to rely to heavily on trade income. If you use mercs, only use key units that you can't build yourself, like horse archers.

Try to consolidate your border aganst the HRE, it should be no more than 4 provinces. Then I would advice you to invade the Iberian peninsula, crushing the spanish and their annoying inquisitors!

"Assassination is a good and valid tactic, and the best way to avoid getting excommunicated. The problem is that it is often a very slow process training up those assassins to the stage where they can finish off monarchs or even their heirs, and a simple border fort can put paid to all those years of training in one year. to avoid excommunication attacking two provinces at once, and assaulting directly afterwards will mean that you will receive the warning from the pope and not be able to attack in 10 years, but will have taken the provinces anyway and not need to worry about it. You can then proceed to attack another catholic faction and recieve another papal warning. i.e, you could take anjou and tolouse from the french assault those, then the following year attack and assault Aragon."

Actually I didn't train up assasins, I simply launched my assault and cut off the stacks with the king and heirs and wiped them out before turn 3. The rest of the provinces turned into rebels. That being said, I am now cleaning up and its taking a while and I am still cash poor from trying to bribe garrisons etc. ~:mecry:

And of course, taking this long and using up so much $$ has meant my building has been stymied so the trade empire is quite distant at this point. Plus I think I built too much in too many places. :wall:

Ah well, live and learn. I don't want to start from scratch so I will just have to bide my time for a while.

Thanks to all of you for all of your helpful advice and comments. This is a great community to be part of. :2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Martok

Agreed. As I've found out in my current Bohemian campaign, the HRE generally collapses very swiftly once things start to go wrong for them.

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To add to what has been said already, you'll know when things start to go wrong for the HRE. The moment the Pope excomms them!

At that point, the HRE is ripe for conquest.

The thing about excomms is that a larger faction attacking a smaller faction is more likely to draw the Pope's anger than the smaller faction going after a larger faction. Since the HRE is usually larger than the neighbors at the start of the game, it's only inevitable that it will happen.