Slight bug with XL Mod with patch

Hi there,

Since I cannot post on the Mod page, I'll just post it here. Please bear with me. I play a XL Mod game, Hard, Early XL, Byzantine. On my game, I invaded the Serbian, in Serbia, their only province. The king there didn't even want to fight me and surrender, and was killed later. Shouldn't he at least fight or retreat to his castle for me to lay siege or storm his castle?

These pics tell the story:

https://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c...l/xltotal1.jpg

https://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c...l/xltotal2.jpg

https://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c...l/xltotal3.jpg

https://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c...l/xltotal4.jpg

https://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c...l/xltotal5.jpg

It looks like the AI somewhat erroneously attempted to abandon the province instead of retreating to the castle. With no province to retreat to the army was put up for ransom, and with no province to be ransomed to, ultimately, lost. I've seen this before and not just in XL. Vanilla MTW/VI does this also.

I can´t recall to have that happening, but I doubt that it is XL mod exclusive - despite all the changes VikingHorde was able to make, there are some things even he can´t influence, and the strategy map behaviour of the AI is one of those.

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Originally Posted by Caravel

It looks like the AI somewhat erroneously attempted to abandon the province instead of retreating to the castle. With no province to retreat to the army was put up for ransom, and with no province to be ransomed to, ultimately, lost. I've seen this before and not just in XL. Vanilla MTW/VI does this also.

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Well, I have played many campaigns with the vanilla MTW/VI and I can say that this situation has not happened to me before. In vanilla MTW/VI, the AI will fight when outnumbered with a superior force when it was clear that there is no possible retreat. Another possble option will be to retreat to the castle if there is a small amount of troops in the province. However, in the XL Mod, the troops just "surrendered" only to be killed later. No doubt, in spite of this, I still enjoyed XL Mod and think that it is still a very good Mod. Maybe VikingHorde can rectify this situation in his upcoming patch?

I've had it happen, too, but I'm pretty sure it was a vanilla VI game...

Same thing happens in unmodded MTW+VI v2.01 - it's not XL Mod, but the hard-coded game engine that's buggy. It's pretty rare, so I wouldn't be too concerned about it.

It happened to me in vanilla MTW/VI too, ONLY when the king is heavily outnumbered in a province that has no way of retreat, but with his faction controlling other provinces because he hopes to get ransomed back. When it is his last province and he has no way to retreat, he will fight or retreat to the castle in MTW/VI. Another instance happened when the Armenian, my ally, was attacked by a coalition force of Egyptian and Turkish. The Armenian king just surrendered without a fight and was killed too. My provinces are just bordering Lesser Armenia and I would have helped the Armenian lift the siege off their castle, and get +1 influence, if they had not surrendered.

I agree that this phenomenon happened in vanilla MTW/VI as well. However, I don't think Digital is imagining things, as I've noticed that it does happen more often in XL.

I still wouldn't exactly call it a *frequent* event, fortunately. I would say, however, that a faction surrendering its last province without a fight happens at least twice as often in XL as it does in the original game. I know that VikingHorde did change the AI scripts for some of the factions, so I wonder if that has something to do with it.

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I know that VikingHorde did change the AI scripts for some of the factions

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martok,
that is the first time i ever heard one could modify the ai scripts. do you need special tools? where are the scripts located? i would dearly love to just look at them. i do not really care as much about changing it. it is just personal curiousity.:trytofly:

He is referring to swapping around the AI faction behaviour types. You can't change the campaign map AI at all. In the startpos files each faction is flagged as a particular behaviour type. This is linked to the crusaders and build files which states which types of factions are more/less likely to build/train what. It also seems to control their agression level, though I cannot confirm this.

ah yes, caravel, i am aware of the startpos file ai types. thanks for the reply. ah, well, i thought i might stumble on something new.:idea2:

Digital is correct - small factions with only one province tend to try to escape and simply vanish without a fight. I have seen is happen to the Swedes, the Norse, and the Portugese. Add to this the Serbs (happened to me when once I invaded with the Bulgarians) and the Armenians and I wonder if we have a pattern - is it almost a rule that when you invade a small faction early in their original and only province, they will simply try to escape to nowhere? Also, I have never seen it happen to the Irish, and I wonder if this has to do with whether you invade by sea or land. Perhaps in the case of the Irish the AI realizes that since there are no neighboring provinces, it has no way to go and stands and fights, but with the Serbs and the Portugese who have land borders it erroneously believes that an escape to a neighboring province is an option?
It happens rarely in MTW VI, never in vanilla MTW, and often in XL, so there must be something that VikingHorde has done to small AI factions behaviour in this reagard, even if not consciously. Would love to see this topic moved to the Mod forum to see his answer.

@highlanddave: Sorry about the confusion, man. :oops: Yes, I was referring to the fact that VikingHorde swapped the AI behaviors for some of the factions. Unfortunately, there's still no way to adjust the actual AI scripts (although if wishing made it so!).

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Originally Posted by Caravel

It also seems to control their agression level, though I cannot confirm this.

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I know VH once said that altering the AI behavior for a faction does in fact change its agression level. How he specifically knew this, however, I have no idea. :shrug:

Either way, though, the proof is fairly self-evident. It's quite obvious that certain factions--the Almos being one of the more notable examples--generally do much better in XL than they did in vanilla MTW/VI. In addition, VikingHorde has specifically stated that he swapped the AI behavior for the Almohads/Almoravids, the result of which is readily apparent. In XL, the Almos often become the dominant power on the Iberian peninsula, whereas in VI they were usually decimated by the Spanish and left with only 1-2 provinces....and that's if they were left alive at all.