Casino royal pain in the butt.

Now this must have been a oh crap moment for legitimate businessmen.

In Argentina a woman throwed 5 centano's (which is absolutily nothing) into a machine and won 9 million euro's. That is the kind of thing legitimate businessmen hate to see, so they simply told her the machine was defect et voila byebye thank you for chosing us, if there is any way we can enrich your gambling experience throw it in the bin outside. Of course that wasn't what she wanted to hear, so she clutches the machine and refuses to let it go untill the police and the lawyers arive. The casino offers her 9000 euro now, which she refuses for some reason. This is going to be fun.

Well I don't know what Argentina's gambling laws are like but I daresay in any other major industrialized nation if a casino posts the maximum jackpot amount on any given machine or on a sign pertaining to a specific area of machines and some lucky person hits the big one then it's time to pony up the cash.

However since we're talking about Argentina I'm almost afraid to suggest that its gambling industry might be like that found in the US back in the 50s, 60s & 70s (i.e. run in large part by the mob). Ah, the good old days... when casinos didn't just ban card counters, they gave 'em a good beating before kicking 'em out da front door!

I wish her the best of luck.

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Originally Posted by Spino

Ah, the good old days... when casinos didn't just ban card counters, they gave 'em a good beating before kicking 'em out da front door!

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Oh paleeese. Nobody tossed the beating victims out the FRONT door -- that'd've been bad for business. There are plenty of side exits and loading docks in such facilities after all.....

Well at least in the U.S., the Casino has no access to the jackpot as it is in an escrow account

She'd have been in a better position to barter for her cash if she brought a gun with her. Helps get the seriousness of your stance across.

So always bring a gun to casino when the house refuses to pay out.

And some body armour in case they have guns too.

But if they aim for the head, you're pretty much stuffed.

So bring a tank along too.

Brilliant all round protection, guaranteed to help tip the balance of any argument in your favour (and plenty of storage space to store all your loot as you do a runner).

So I have no sympathy for people like her who just go to these things unprepared.

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Originally Posted by Oaty

Well at least in the U.S., the Casino has no access to the jackpot as it is in an escrow account

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Pity pensions aren't so well looked after...

I hear stuff like this happens in North America too, ie: winning blackjack players (who don't cheat) get banned from casinos simply because they win.

Good lesson in this thread: all casinos are scams, don't ever go in one for any reason whatsover.

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Gambling: The sure way of getting nothing from something. ~Wilson Mizner

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sums it up perfectly

Alcohol is a much better investment. :)

I think gambling is great fun; just don’t ever expect to win. The misses likes it too, whenever we go (there are loads of Indian casinos in MI) we set a limit and when we run out of money or time we quit. If we are in the plus we usually have a nice dinner there (sometimes even stay the night :eyebrows: ) if not we stop at Shoney's and drive home. ~D

If Big Chief Takeallyourmoney :indian_chief: didn’t pay up when people win, people wouldn’t go back. They make a mint off us suckers; paying-out is just a small cost of doing business. Don’t know about Argentina but I would guess if people found out the casino wouldn’t pay its winners it would cost them some business.

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Originally Posted by Navaros

I hear stuff like this happens in North America too, ie: winning blackjack players (who don't cheat) get banned from casinos simply because they win.

Good lesson in this thread: all casinos are scams, don't ever go in one for any reason whatsover.

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Not quite the same. If they have no proof of cheating (say if you are mentally card-counting) you get to keep your winnings. You are just asked to never come back.

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh Quote:

Originally Posted by Spino
Ah, the good old days... when casinos didn't just ban card counters, they gave 'em a good beating before kicking 'em out da front door!


Oh paleeese. Nobody tossed the beating victims out the FRONT door -- that'd've been bad for business. There are plenty of side exits and loading docks in such facilities after all.....

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BADA BING!

https://img346.imageshack.us/img346/...sopranobs6.jpg https://img134.imageshack.us/img134/...anos184pi7.jpg

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Originally Posted by drone

Not quite the same. If they have no proof of cheating (say if you are mentally card-counting) you get to keep your winnings. You are just asked to never come back.

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Card counting isn't cheating and there isn't a court in the country that can prosecute you for doing so. All a card counter does is use his/her brain to the best of their ability so as to anticipate what cards are being dealt next. The fact that card counters are banned and treated with such disdain by the gambling industry is because they skew the decidedly unfavorable odds towards the player. I guess it all comes down to a matter of perspective; the casinos consider it cheating because it makes an annoying dent in their mammoth profits. FYI, good card counters are rarely ever caught.

I believe the same sort of laws that allow casinos to ban card counters also allow restaurants to kick out people engaged in appropriate behavior or bar people from entering who are not wearing the appropriate attire.

Pretty much what I meant to say. If you are card-counting with help (using some device to keep track), I think they can take back your winnings. But if you can do it in your head, there's not much they can do except to keep you from coming back.

As for slot-machines in the US, doesn't the Gaming Commision have the say on whether a machine is defective?

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Originally Posted by professorspatula

She'd have been in a better position to barter for her cash if she brought a gun with her. Helps get the seriousness of your stance across.

So always bring a gun to casino when the house refuses to pay out.

And some body armour in case they have guns too.

But if they aim for the head, you're pretty much stuffed.

So bring a tank along too.

Brilliant all round protection, guaranteed to help tip the balance of any argument in your favour (and plenty of storage space to store all your loot as you do a runner).

So I have no sympathy for people like her who just go to these things unprepared.

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That was one of the best posts I've read all day. Thank you.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Now this must have been a oh crap moment for legitimate businessmen.

In Argentina a woman throwed 5 centano's (which is absolutily nothing) into a machine and won 9 million euro's. That is the kind of thing legitimate businessmen hate to see, so they simply told her the machine was defect et voila byebye thank you for chosing us, if there is any way we can enrich your gambling experience throw it in the bin outside. Of course that wasn't what she wanted to hear, so she clutches the machine and refuses to let it go untill the police and the lawyers arive. The casino offers her 9000 euro now, which she refuses for some reason. This is going to be fun.

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Yes this happened four blocks away from my house actually... I'll not say that I don't find it akward to see this posted on the backroom...
It's not centanos but "centavos". The sum that she won was 35.663.093,02 pesos, I think the equivalent is something near 9 million euros as you posted. Now one important thing to consider is that this is one of the biggest (is not the biggest) Casinos in sudamerica (at least they say so), so 35 million pesos is a big sum but one that they can afford (Bingo Mirador, after the name of the "barrio" in wich I live). The funny thing is that this Casino opened 3 or 4 months ago, and I actually applied to get a job there (I heard that some employees are well payed). Some employees atribute the error to the agents in charge of the programing of the machines.

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Originally Posted by Spino

Well I don't know what Argentina's gambling laws are like but I daresay in any other major industrialized nation if a casino posts the maximum jackpot amount on any given machine or on a sign pertaining to a specific area of machines and some lucky person hits the big one then it's time to pony up the cash.

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I'll try to find out what the law is on the Province of Buenos Aires, it's pretty complex and this case might be alive for quite sometime. However is not that our laws are outdated, you do right in assume that they could be, what's really outdated is the administrative and juridic process.

There was a casino where I used to live (Indian casino, oklahoma). They let anyone in, but when somebody won and they were underage they didnt let you keep the money, if you lost they didnt care at all.

If the machine is mis-programmed than that is the casino's fault and should give the money to the winner, and try again next time (Maybe hire better programmers)

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Originally Posted by Soulforged

Yes this happened four blocks away from my house actually...

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Kewl, how did it turn out? Did the cheap pricks pay her?

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Kewl, how did it turn out? Did the cheap pricks pay her?

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Well they're still dealing with it. This will rarely reach trial.

About the legal part: The law in the province states that the amount won has to be proportional to the amount played in a row following the game standards and regulations (wich is set by the Lotery of Buenos Aires in this case). Since in this case she played 5 centavos (wich is related to the peso in the same way a cent is related to a dollar) she cannot win 35 million pesos, it seems the maximum she's entitled to is 2500 pesos, wich was the first offer the company made to the woman.

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Originally Posted by holybandit

If the machine is mis-programmed than that is the casino's fault and should give the money to the winner, and try again next time (Maybe hire better programmers)

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I disagree. Is totally unreasonable to pay based on the amount displayed on the machine. By this logic if the machine fails at some point and shows such a big quantity of money that would make the company break, if payed, that could end with enterprises from one day to another just like that. I find the rule of proportionality to be more reasonable.

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Originally Posted by Soulforged

I disagree. Is totally unreasonable to pay based on the amount displayed on the machine. By this logic if the machine fails at some point and shows such a big quantity of money that would make the company break, if payed, that could end with enterprises from one day to another just like that. I find the rule of proportionality to be more reasonable.

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Youve convinced me. Bravo :2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Soulforged

I disagree. Is totally unreasonable to pay based on the amount displayed on the machine. By this logic if the machine fails at some point and shows such a big quantity of money that would make the company break, if payed, that could end with enterprises from one day to another just like that. I find the rule of proportionality to be more reasonable.

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A casino is a place for gambling, that works both ways. If the machine gives a one in a million chance insane amount of money, well, chance is their business. They should pay.

bogus. a business venture goes both ways. if you cant afford the rissk of failure then you dont deserve to be in business anyways. what the casino needs to do is pay this sap her money and sue whoever is responsible for the machine malfunctioning. if a lube shop puts out a sign that says "oil change 20 dollars" and an oil change is actually 40 dollars, its not the customers fault. if they dont pay this lady they deserve to be ruined.

boohoo, an enterpise that makes mad profit off of peoples spending indescretions (people who are usually drunk, i might add) might face some hard times because of their own indescretions. waaaaaaaaaah! waaaaaaaah!

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Originally Posted by yesdachi

I think gambling is great fun; just don’t ever expect to win. The misses likes it too, whenever we go (there are loads of Indian casinos in MI) we set a limit and when we run out of money or time we quit. If we are in the plus we usually have a nice dinner there (sometimes even stay the night :eyebrows: ) if not we stop at Shoney's and drive home. ~D

If Big Chief Takeallyourmoney :indian_chief: didn’t pay up when people win, people wouldn’t go back. They make a mint off us suckers; paying-out is just a small cost of doing business. Don’t know about Argentina but I would guess if people found out the casino wouldn’t pay its winners it would cost them some business.

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The nice thing about you spending your money at the Indian casinos is that in a way you are funding your GOP representative! Yeeehaw, nothing like good old family values!

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Originally Posted by Fragony

A casino is a place for gambling, that works both ways. If the machine gives a one in a million chance insane amount of money, well, chance is their business. They should pay.

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That's your opinion, fine by me. I think it's unreasonable. The gambling, however goes one way, from the people to the casino, the casino only invests and saves as far as capital goes.

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Originally Posted by MRD

bogus. a business venture goes both ways. if you cant afford the rissk of failure then you dont deserve to be in business anyways. what the casino needs to do is pay this sap her money and sue whoever is responsible for the machine malfunctioning. if a lube shop puts out a sign that says "oil change 20 dollars" and an oil change is actually 40 dollars, its not the customers fault. if they dont pay this lady they deserve to be ruined.

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And I suppose you know the difference between an error, and not even a substancial one, but just nominal (the machine showing more than the person should win), and a voluntary act like you described. The consequences cannot be the same you would be breaking a simple principle of justice.

Besides there's lot of things to consider. We're talking about Argentina here, not the first world. If there's a thing that marks Argentina's history is the constant failure of enterprises outside agriculture. Now, you tell me that the progress of a society should be sacrificed for the luxury of only one person.

If it's still an error I think no company should pay in the industry of gambling and if there's no damage, this includes prosperous countries like USA. Just go back in your own history, I think that the industry of gambling is one of the pillars that helped the USA to rise from economic depression. Just imagine if their prosperity had been ruined by ocasional mistakes.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Now this must have been a oh crap moment for legitimate businessmen.

In Argentina a woman throwed 5 centano's (which is absolutily nothing) into a machine and won 9 million euro's. That is the kind of thing legitimate businessmen hate to see, so they simply told her the machine was defect et voila byebye thank you for chosing us, if there is any way we can enrich your gambling experience throw it in the bin outside. Of course that wasn't what she wanted to hear, so she clutches the machine and refuses to let it go untill the police and the lawyers arive. The casino offers her 9000 euro now, which she refuses for some reason. This is going to be fun.

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The casino offers she 35000 pesos, but she refused it and She winned the amount of money.It was payed by The Loteria de Buenos Aires(Soulforged translate that)

The Lottery of Buenos Aires.

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Originally Posted by Soulforged

And I suppose you know the difference between an error, and not even a substancial one, but just nominal (the machine showing more than the person should win), and a voluntary act like you described. The consequences cannot be the same you would be breaking a simple principle of justice.

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What some don't realize is that if the slot machine has a malfunction (since most are computerized in the United States the casino has a record of everything that happens) and the casino determines that the machine did indeed malfunction then they are not obligated to pay. This is especially true in Oklahoma where the Indian Casino's have signs on thier machines that state they will not pay if the machine malfunctions. It's been awhile since I have been to Las Vegas but I believe this policy is consistent even there.

Now one casino in Oklahoma has gotten itself in some media trouble for claiming machines were malfunctioning and not paying the jackpot. Last I heard this casino was not forced by the gaming commission to change its ways, but when they made the news in Dallas - because of the number of drunk Texans that go to Oklahoma to gamble - the casino has made a better effort not to have so many malfunctions.

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Originally Posted by Redleg

What some don't realize is that if the slot machine has a malfunction (since most are computerized in the United States the casino has a record of everything that happens) and the casino determines that the machine did indeed malfunction then they are not obligated to pay. This is especially true in Oklahoma where the Indian Casino's have signs on thier machines that state they will not pay if the machine malfunctions. It's been awhile since I have been to Las Vegas but I believe this policy is consistent even there.

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Thanks for adding to my point Red :cheers:. I was checking for sarcasm...:laugh4: Really is it that weird that we're on the same side?...:2thumbsup:

If you can't handle the pointed bias towards the Casino Industry, then you shouldn't play. In this day and age, Casinos are Regulated heavily by the Bureau of Gambling Control in the US. There is a set limit that any Lottery Machine can hand out, if for some reason it goes over that amount, usually by a bug in the progamming, then it is not the Casino's fault for this. It is automatically assumed, that the player won the highest set amount. Usually with Lottery Machines, the highest amount is around 2500-4000 USD.

There are only a few games that have no set limit a player can win within 24 hours; Roulette and Craps and maybe another one. I think this is a fair offer. If you don't play the big games, don't expect to win big prizes.

Having said that; I am against gambling, as a businessman I prefer slow and methodical, you can win big once or twice in your life, but if you wish to make a sustainable income (or beyond) it takes time and patience.

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Originally Posted by Soulforged

Thanks for adding to my point Red :cheers:. I was checking for sarcasm...:laugh4: Really is it that weird that we're on the same side?...:2thumbsup:

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I have absolutely no problem supporting someone who is correct in their arguement, no sarcasm intended.

No its not all that weird - in many areas most people will find some sort of consensus if they do not allow themselves to be bogged down by the idealogue of the area.

I would like to know the rule about malfunctions in Las Vegas, because the fact that Indian Casinos on soveriegn Indian land are not obliged to play is, I'm sure, an Indian gaming rule when we get down to it. A state-run gaming commission is going to have a hard time enforcing and implementing fines on Indian casinos if they really don't want to play along. In the end its up to people taking the risk to go there and do business

As I understand it, disputes that arise
between a non-indian contractor doing something on indian land, the non-indian contractor has very little recourse by way of the courts. The same goes people working on Indian land regarding workers comp, wrongful termination etc.

I'm not in any way saying the tribes are out to screw people, but they can if they want to. There are a lot of construction companies who kindly say no thanks to building on Indian land, and the worst case of this I know of personally is the Native Sun waterpark 4 miles north of Ft Still on the H.E. Bailey turnpike. To this day it sits empty; non-indians built it, the park opened, the tribes tried to reneg on the payment agreed upon to the contractor, the contractor almost went bankrupt, contractor also happened to be largest and oldest and most popular firm in the county, which didnt sit well with all the non-indians going to the park; public boycotted park, park died. this was like 15 years ago, and alas this is the wrong thread for me to bitch about the tribes, sorry