Unpacker announced to come with first patch

Good news first: According to the CA dev blog (http://totalwardev.blogspot.com/), an unpacker will be released with the first patch, which I hope will arrive soon (after all, this news was posted today, although without mentioning any date).

However it also contains some bad news: We will apparently not be able to edit models in the near future. According to Iain, the meshes in M2TW are far from similar to the R:TW .cas files and have a much non-trivial layout. Inhowfar that applies to skinning will have to be seen.

btw -and date of release? next month,or year?? :(

Within as few weeks i would have though given what Ca said to me at the Gold Code event.

some good and bad news there thanks alpaca... (and to be annoying: your link is kinda wrong :whip: )

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Originally Posted by GiantMonkeyMan

some good and bad news there thanks alpaca... (and to be annoying: your link is kinda wrong :whip: )

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Sorry, auto url tagging ;)

[quote=We are investigating options to allow the community to create their own mesh files.[/quote]
I guess we'll need to make models from scratch - I foresee a lot of work and testing coming from modellers. If we can't get a base model (to see how things work) it will be almost impossible, not to mention file conversions.

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Within as few weeks i would have though given what Ca said to me at the Gold Code event.

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Hmm, when I asked that day, they were very vague about dates. They said we would hear soon, which we have.

Wells that a bit of good news. Quick question: how long was it before work on RTW models was first possible?

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Originally Posted by Burns

Wells that a bit of good news. Quick question: how long was it before work on RTW models was first possible?

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At least two months, or so. Not until Vecingetorix could decode the CAS format.

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Originally Posted by alpaca

Good news first: According to the CA dev blog (http://totalwardev.blogspot.com/), an unpacker will be released with the first patch, which I hope will arrive soon

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I am so turned on right now. :dancing:

According to CA ....

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Meshes & Textures
The final area I wanted to talk about was the mesh/texture files used for soldier and siege engine models. These are a very different format to the CAS files with which Rome modders will be familiar. Currently, modders will not be able to edit or replace these files.

This is because the format is optimised specifically for rendering. We made this decision to enable us to ramp up the level of detail of the battles while retaining a good level of performance. We are investigating options to allow the community to create their own mesh files.

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Still happy?

Prometheus, any particular reason for abounding pessimism?

I do find it a little hard to be optimistic myself. I'm afraid 'investigating options' may very well be a way of saying 'figure it out yourselves'.

I hope to be proven wrong.

from TW.com-Forum

Hello,

As mentioned previously we at the Australia studio had planned on a day one update, we are close to having this ready for you. As you may remember Rome wasn’t built in a day and well neither is Med 2 update.

As a part of this update we are also including the unpacker for the modders. We would have released it earlier but it is only compatible with the update 1 code. This is a tip of the hat to the modding fans out there who are already trying to make their own unpacker. There is a whole lot of love going around C.A. for the community now. We have been really pleased with the reaction you guys have been giving us and we want to give a little back.

We are a few days behind schedule for the update and we are about to start the two week final test pass before we release it to you guys. Assuming nothing goes wrong you should have it after then. I hope to release a list of the fixes that will be in the update so you can get an idea of what is coming. You will know the update is only a few days away when you see the readme for it posted.

There will be lots of little fixes in the update mostly to do with A.I. and a masses of other tiny things which we have squeezed into this build. Being a little late on the delivery has allowed us to soak up a few more fixes to problems you guys have found too, Quality Assurance here have been trawling the forums looking for your bugs and trying to repro them. They have also been enjoying your comments. heh

Stay keen,

-wikiman

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Hmm, when I asked that day, they were very vague about dates. They said we would hear soon, which we have.

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They didn't say any dates to me either, but when i asked about the patch, and the unpacker, they said keep an eye on .com over the next few weeks.

And that's good news about the patch, at least now we have a date.

soon soon ...next month,year... dont know

Wel in about 2 weeks actually, as they have now said it will come with the first patch.

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However it also contains some bad news: We will apparently not be able to edit models in the near future. According to Iain, the meshes in M2TW are far from similar to the R:TW .cas files and have a much non-trivial layout. Inhowfar that applies to skinning will have to be seen.

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Hopefully it will be possible no matter how hard, through 3ds Max. Through a script they will do and support. Otherwise, this game everybody feasted for it's "Improved moddability" will mark the end of the TW Modding Era, and bold mods like Europa Barbarorum 2 and others like this will die or remain only at the RTW level.

Arbaces.

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Originally Posted by Arbaces

Hopefully it will be possible no matter how hard, through 3ds Max. Through a script they will do and support. Otherwise, this game everybody feasted for it's "Improved moddability" will mark the end of the TW Modding Era, and bold mods like Europa Barbarorum 2 and others like this will die or remain only at the RTW level.
Arbaces.

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I think it is a very wise move on the part of CA. If they can't beat the skins the community makes, - take out the competition :inquisitive:
If you think about it, they didn't release a .cas importer/exporter script for RTW either, we have Vercingetorix to thank for that.

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Originally Posted by Ramon_Gonzales_y_Garcia

I think it is a very wise move on the part of CA. If they can't beat the skins the community makes, - take out the competition :inquisitive:
If you think about it, they didn't release a .cas importer/exporter script for RTW either, we have Vercingetorix to thank for that.

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Anyone heard from V lately? Last I remember he was going to take a break from TW for a while.:help:

Not being able to do models will be a major gut punch for most of the mods in the works.:shame:

Hopefully some of the more software skilled members of the community will create a work-around or work-through.:yes:

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Originally Posted by Sir Robin

Anyone heard from V lately? Last I remember he was going to take a break from TW for a while.:help:

Not being able to do models will be a major gut punch for most of the mods in the works.:shame:

Hopefully some of the more software skilled members of the community will create a work-around or work-through.:yes:

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Last time I chatted with him he said he didn't have the money for a new PC so he wouldn't get MTW2 soon either. So I guess we shouldn't count on him to sort it out, although he might help if we're lucky.

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Originally Posted by Ramon_Gonzales_y_Garcia

I think it is a very wise move on the part of CA. If they can't beat the skins the community makes, - take out the competition :inquisitive:
If you think about it, they didn't release a .cas importer/exporter script for RTW either, we have Vercingetorix to thank for that.

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Seems a little narrow minded to me, wouldnt you think if there was an artisit better here in the community than what they employ at CA (yeh they do have to pay some poor sap to make this stuff) that they would be approached and offered a place at the company?

Speaking as someone who is loosely connected to the industry as my course/university has close links to a few major games companies including EA,Blitz and Codemasters I've heard from the men/women themselves that they're actively looking for talent as the industry grows.

Also, you must remember that sometimes quality is restrained in many games due to the time contraints employed by the game's publishers. The worst publisher for rushing out games is Ubisoft. The developers are forced to release much of the true content after the game's release.

I think CA are doing well if they're communicating with the community, it shows they care about the game after its release. I think we will get what we need eventually, the truth is they dont want to or are not allowed to release their in house tools that went into the game's compilation and therefore a "3rd Party" tool needs to be implemented.

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Originally Posted by richyg13

Seems a little narrow minded to me, wouldnt you think if there was an artisit better here in the community than what they employ at CA (yeh they do have to pay some poor sap to make this stuff) that they would be approached and offered a place at the company?

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...yet, I haven't heard of anyone being offered anything, not unlike some other game companies (not a lot of them, mind you) where they DO work more closely with modders (Bioware and DLA team comes to mind).

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Speaking as someone who is loosely connected to the industry as my course/university has close links to a few major games companies including EA,Blitz and Codemasters I've heard from the men/women themselves that they're actively looking for talent as the industry grows.

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well, for starters, they can download the Crusades, or Chivalry Total War and they can make their decision as to whose style they prefer(for medieval stuff)...:inquisitive:

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Also, you must remember that sometimes quality is restrained in many games due to the time contraints employed by the game's publishers.

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now ain't that the truth:laugh4:

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I think CA are doing well if they're communicating with the community, it shows they care about the game after its release.

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true at least Jerome Grasdyke was helping with the coding stuff in RTW, and that is just as important, and their impending release of the unpacker is something (V had to do that for RTW)

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I think we will get what we need eventually,

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I think so, too, only question is, do we have to do it ourselves or will they help make things easier for us?

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the truth is they dont want to or are not allowed to release their in house tools that went into the game's compilation and therefore a "3rd Party" tool needs to be implemented.

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now, if they told me that then I would understand perfectly... I may not really be pleased but it is their prerogative, but pls don't tell me 'modders will not be able to edit or replace these files...because the format is optimised specifically for rendering' its almost like saying, 'nah you have no hope of understanding this... so we won't let you play with it...' :no:
they din't let us 'play' with RTW .cas files but we did anyway...

and please do not look at this as CA bashing coz if I didn't like their products I wouldn't be here spending 80% of my free-time reading/responding to posts, (free time doesn't count the time when I have access to a 'better' computer where I am modding/playing CA games 95% of the time) but at the same time I am not blind to some things - like community modders making better models than CA

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I haven't heard of anyone being offered anything

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You'll find this is down to generally two things.
1) They want to know theres a real person there with credentials and not just an Alias
2) They will tend to prefer someone who is willing to strive and come to them and be enthusiastic in wanting a job with them.

I'm speaking here purely from the artist's point of view since this is the main "modder" criteria. Joylen Webb, Creative Manager of Blitz Games (formerly worked for Codemasters) did a small fill in presentation at SAND 2006. His presentation was one that they give to students they take on invitations to the company. He listed that the following things were needed to be a game's artist
- Traditional Art Skills (understanding on tones etc., helps if you can draw etc.)
- Ability to produce 3D models
- Ability to produce Texture Maps
- Have some ability to rig a model if called upon

and on a slightly more sutle side

- Have an element of "human-ness" (essentially they seek candinates that realy want to be there)

They also like to see how you can break down what you've made for a game (Original Wireframe, Original Mesh, Normal Mapped/Bump Mapped Mesh, Textured Mesh, Texture Maps, UVW Unwrap)

I'll personally be starting to apply to all the british games companies come summer 2008 when i get my degree [BAHons] as a games artist. Using this technique.

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don't tell me 'modders will not be able to edit or replace these files...because the format is optimised specifically for rendering'

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thats generally what their tools do, the format compresses into a file type for faster rendering (or something along those lines). Perhaps getting the compiled meshes back out of the compressed format is indeed complex but the original files that go in are still made in max, maya, xsi, photoshop... It would take someone from CA to clarify this. I dont pretend to know much about game engines as such, just how they utilize assets.

A company like CA will develop tools for certain tasks, but you can be sure thet they did not for modelling and texture painting! They will have used the industry standard tools like Max or Photoshop. That way you can hire or use talent form the marketplace. No developer is going to have the time to design their own 3D modelling package to make their game content.

What they DO build a tool for is to convert the mesh from the standard proprietory formats into something optimised for their own game engine. If this is a complex process, you either have to reverse engineer a model, or have a 'key' that tells you how the game format works.

To tell us how would involve CA releasing the format they have developed, allowing anyone to make use of it.

Reverse engineering requires hex editing and guesswork, and takes time and knowledge. It's slow, tedious and requires a lot of trial and error.

The only other option is if CA release a locked down tool or import/export plugin that allows conversion to their format from Max files. This would have to handle the skeleton data as well as the mesh and UV. It would also have to protect the integrity of CA's own file format, and be as secure as the EXE file in the game itself!

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Originally Posted by Bwian

The only other option is if CA release a locked down tool or import/export plugin that allows conversion to their format from Max files. This would have to handle the skeleton data as well as the mesh and UV. It would also have to protect the integrity of CA's own file format, and be as secure as the EXE file in the game itself!

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Well that would actually be my proposition, too. They shouldn't have huge problems to make their tool as secure as the exe (which is I think not very secure) and it would protect their oh-so-important format.
Also, I think they'll create a new engine for the next TW game which means they can scrap that format anyways so why not give it out?

BTW on the whole modders being offered jobs at CA thing - in Brisbane no less than two of the CA employees I met had been modders before they joined.

Very good to here, kinda gives me the strive to push further on with modding. Thinking about it, the third year project on my course is effectivly to make a mod.