Former New York City mayor opens presidential exploratory committee

Hey,


this is intersting, but nothing new to me..


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15704147/

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Originally Posted by {BHC}KingWarman888

Hey,


this is intersting, but nothing new to me..


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15704147/

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Giuliani is a media darling; but outside of the positives he has from 9/11, he's going to run into some serious trouble facing off against the religious conservative Christian Evangelical base of the Republican party. Giuliani has spoken openly in support of pro-Choice and pro-Gay Marriage issues. It'll be interesting to see if he manages to make it far enough to the right in order to please the Republican base which rules the primary process.

McCain is much closer to the right; but I think his biggest problems come in trying to move to the center for a general election. His wishy-washy stance against the Bush administration's pro-torture positions is going to come back to haunt him, especially considering his history as a former tortured POW. His stance on the war is also an albatross around his neck in a general election, considering this last election cycle. We'll see if he manages to attach himself to the Iraq Study Group, which would move him closer to the center; but also alienate the party base.

Romney has problems similar to Giuliani's. You don't get elected governor of Massachussetts as a Republican by being far to the right. His record on issues will come back to haunt him in the eyes of the Republican religious conservative base just as much as Giuliani.

Giuliani is a very likable character and his pro-choice stance makes him popular with the left. He may not be the best candidate for President (not churchy enough) but he would make a great candidate for VP to accompany/balance someone like McCain (who I am not a big fan of but may be popular enough to make a run for the top spot).

So Giuliani is on the move, eh?

Not very surprising -- rumors had been flying around him for a long time. He won't ever appeal to the social conservatives with their God-Hates-You attitudes unless the guy sheds his tough-crimefighter/9-11-hero image and start praying daily in public; but I couldn't care less for that crowd anyway!

Besides, apart from the increasingly less appealing McCain, he presents the only visible candidate from the Republicans that the Left can stomach.

I'm not sure these strict rules of left-right spectrum positions and manuevering will be so dominant in the upcoming election. I know that this is the bread and butter of current political scientists, and that I am not one... but it seems that a level might be reached at some point where public impatience and disgust might overflow and favor a candidate with character and personality, that is percieved to have some substance. Perhaps a demagogue.

Anyway, that's just a feeling, and as I said I'm not an expert.

I like Guilani and will be thrilled if he runs for president. He would definately have my vote.

I've heard mostly good things about Romney - I'm kind of hoping he slips in under the radar. You have a point about him having to compromise, but my Conservative propaganda sources haven't scoured him, so he can't be to wishy-washy.

:book:

EDIT: Having looked at it yet, but this interview of Mitt Romney by the 700 Club was linked on my conservative propaganda source.

EDIT2: It seems pretty positive, or at least fair, and it calls him "conservative." Mild approval from the evangelical wing?

Personally I think that the next election cycle could have a rather unkown at the national level run for office.

Giuliani actually fits this bill better then any mentioned in the media so far. He is nationally known and not seen as a Washington Insider, which could be a big advantage.

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Originally Posted by Redleg

Personally I think that the next election cycle could have a rather unkown at the national level run for office.

Giuliani actually fits this bill better then any mentioned in the media so far. He is nationally known and not seen as a Washington Insider, which could be a big advantage.

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I agree, but he is both Catholic and Italian. Two of which aren't to great at winning votes. I'm both too. Just another reason for me to like the guy. :beam:

I'd vote for Giuliani. He's not a fundy, but the Religious Vote isn't going to matter so much this election, after the Evangelicals felt like they had been completely scammed by GWB. No, this next election will come down to the nitty gritty reality of politics, after we've been completely disillusioned by the prospect of a New World Order under GWB, and we've actually taken about 140 year step in the wrong direction.

If the Democrats field some Heavy Hitters, like Obama (he may be junior senator but he could work that to his advantage).

I dislike McCain a whole lot more than Giuliani, and I'd rather see him as a VP rather than President.

*note: Now After doing a bit of research, it seems Giuliani and me see a lot more eye-to-eye on politics and the economy, than I do with any Democrats.

You have to remember how elections work in this two party system of ourse. Before Giuliani can get to a general election, where his more moderate stance would be good for his politically, he has to get through the primary process.

The primary process is an entirely different matter. In the primaries, it's the party base which matters, not the independents who in some states can't even vote in Democrat of Republican primaries. That is a very important distinction. The base is what determines who wins the primaries, then the winner of that process has to begin campaigning to win the independents and cross-overs. After each party chooses it's nominee, we always see them both race for the middle. The Republican winner who had to lean farther to the right to please the base for the primaries, then has to lean back toward to middle to attract independents and moderates, while still keeping the interest of the base alive. The reverse is true for the Democrats. You watch Hillary Clinton and the as yet other unknown Democract hopefuls move steadily to the left as the primaries approach, and then watch the nominee move back to the middle after the nominations.

Giuliani is very far from the Republican base, which was just made even more conservative by the removal of a bunch of moderate NE Republicans, like Chaffey. He is pro-Choice, pro-Gay marriage, and pro-Gun Control. That won't sit well with the Republican base at primary time. He's already, even before the primary season has begin, at odds with large groups of the Republicans who go to the polls in primaries, ecially the religious right which has a huge say in the primary elections, and the NRA which also makes up a large part of the Republican base.

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Originally Posted by Aenlic

You have to remember how elections work in this two party system of ourse. Before Giuliani can get to a general election, where his more moderate stance would be good for his politically, he has to get through the primary process.

The primary process is an entirely different matter. In the primaries, it's the party base which matters, not the independents who in some states can't even vote in Democrat of Republican primaries. That is a very important distinction. The base is what determines who wins the primaries, then the winner of that process has to begin campaigning to win the independents and cross-overs. After each party chooses it's nominee, we always see them both race for the middle. The Republican winner who had to lean farther to the right to please the base for the primaries, then has to lean back toward to middle to attract independents and moderates, while still keeping the interest of the base alive. The reverse is true for the Democrats. You watch Hillary Clinton and the as yet other unknown Democract hopefuls move steadily to the left as the primaries approach, and then watch the nominee move back to the middle after the nominations.

Giuliani is very far from the Republican base, which was just made even more conservative by the removal of a bunch of moderate NE Republicans, like Chaffey. He is pro-Choice, pro-Gay marriage, and pro-Gun Control. That won't sit well with the Republican base at primary time. He's already, even before the primary season has begin, at odds with large groups of the Republicans who go to the polls in primaries, ecially the religious right which has a huge say in the primary elections, and the NRA which also makes up a large part of the Republican base.

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Didn't know he was Pro-Choice and Pro-Gun Control. Well then, I won't vote for him then.

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Originally Posted by Aenlic

Giuliani is very far from the Republican base, which was just made even more conservative by the removal of a bunch of moderate NE Republicans, like Chaffey. He is pro-Choice, pro-Gay marriage, and pro-Gun Control. That won't sit well with the Republican base at primary time. He's already, even before the primary season has begin, at odds with large groups of the Republicans who go to the polls in primaries, ecially the religious right which has a huge say in the primary elections, and the NRA which also makes up a large part of the Republican base.

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Yes indeed he is outside the base of the party. But a little known Georgia state governor who was also outside of the demoncratic party won the election in 1976.

What I think is that we are beginning to see the start of a disenchanment of the American People with politicians that are considered Washington Insiders. The next congress's actions will determine if the Republican base begins to shift more toward the moderate platform versus relaying on the right.

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Originally Posted by {BHC}KingWarman888

Didn't know he was Pro-Choice and Pro-Gun Control. Well then, I won't vote for him then.

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*Rolls Eyes*. Typical.

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presidential exploratory committee

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and here's me with images of Giuliani gathering together a posse to do some non-elective surgery on Dubya.... :sweatdrop: "Hey, guys, let's go explore the president!"

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Originally Posted by Ice

*Rolls Eyes*. Typical.

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Ice, How About you tell Us why you would vote for him? Because of his Pro-Choice, Pro- Gun Control stances and others?

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Originally Posted by {BHC}KingWarman888

Ice, How About you tell Us why you would vote for him? Because of his Pro-Choice, Pro- Gun Control stances and others?

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Do you only vote for an individual for President based upon his stance on two issues?

Do you vote for a man based upon his stated platform on multiple issues and his tract record of honoring his political word for the political offices that he has held?

I tend to vote for the second.

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Originally Posted by {BHC}KingWarman888

Ice, How About you tell Us why you would vote for him? Because of his Pro-Choice, Pro- Gun Control stances and others?

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Because he is a smart man and knew how to run New York City. He has proven his abilties. Pro gun control and pro choice mean nothing. How pro choice or how pro gun control? It's rediculous to base how you are going to vote off of two issues like that.

Oh and btw Warman:

I'm fairly anti abortion, and fairly pro gun control. Not totally for either one, but I'm not on the left.

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Didn't know he was Pro-Choice and Pro-Gun Control. Well then, I won't vote for him then.

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Worry about things like that in Congress. Presidents should be close to your ideology but should be able and effective leaders first. Congress can make the laws that ban abortion and loosen gun control.


On Guiliani running, I'd vote for him if they put some of the assholes the Dems are passing around get in (Clinton, Kerry2, etc.)

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Originally Posted by JimBob

Worry about things like that in Congress. Presidents should be close to your ideology but should be able and effective leaders first. Congress can make the laws that ban abortion and loosen gun control.


On Guiliani running, I'd vote for him if they put some of the assholes the Dems are passing around get in (Clinton, Kerry2, etc.)

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Right on JimBob, the presidents stance on moral issues are telling of the man but Congress, the Supreme Court and the state leaders are the ones you need to pay more attention to regarding issues like abortion and guns.

Guiliani has proven he is a strong, capable leader with a sense of humor (he dressed up as a girl on SNL) if he ran I would vote for him.

I'm surprised to hear BHC coming out against Giuliani for being pro-choice. In the mercy-killing thread, you advocated killing children already born, if their overall productivity to society wasn't up to a certain measure. :dizzy2:

As for Rudy being pro-gun-control, don't let the religious right demonize the guy like that. He was against the assault weapon ban. He believes in a right to carry concealed. The reason he's been labelled as pro-gun control is because he supports database registration. Well, not many folks in the Backroom are more pro 2nd Ammendment than yours truly, and guess what, I think it's a good idea too.

The biggest issue I have with Rudy is that the words 'reduce the role of government' will never escape his lips, except maybe as the punchline of a joke. That being said, he is thoughtful, tough, principled, balanced and very charismatic. We could do a lot *cough* *Newt* *cough* worse in my humble opinion. Rudy's great in many ways, and better than most of the alternatives I've seen hinted at. But after 8 years of bloating DC, we need somebody to drain the swamp and reduce the role of government. Rudy's not that guy.

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Originally Posted by Don Corleone

Rudy's great in many ways, and better than most of the alternatives I've seen hinted at. But after 8 years of bloating DC, we need somebody to drain the swamp and reduce the role of government. Rudy's not that guy.

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Well have to wait and see who all throws their hats into the ring from both parties.

Personally I like Rudy, and I can't remember his name but the govenor from the NorthEast that happens to also be a mormon. His policies sound great to me.

Mitt Romney? Gov of Massachusetts?

I've heard he's more anti-gun than Rudy, and considering what one has to do to be elected in Massachusetts, I'm not sure I'd want him as President.

Crazed Rabbit

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

Mitt Romney? Gov of Massachusetts?

I've heard he's more anti-gun than Rudy, and considering what one has to do to be elected in Massachusetts, I'm not sure I'd want him as President.

Crazed Rabbit

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Yep that is the guy