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The official thread will be used to add more information about the faction.
For now you can post anything you find useful including ideas for faction specific buildings, events, advisors etc MILITARY UNITS EXCLUDED - that is well researched and only later we will possibly need more details.
http://www.resimania.com/reg/images/8487281ds.jpg
i have a nice picture for you
the ilkhanate must also be in it in this mod because they were very big and good.
( Hülegü Khan, Abaka Khan, Arghun Khan, Ghazan Mahmud Khan and Muhammed Olcay-to Khan and his son Great and Last Khan: Ebü Sa'id Bahadir Khan )
So glad some Indian factions are getting represented.
I'll give more later, but a pleasure garden type building is a must. Also how you deal with religion is important. Should be able to build Mosques and Hindu Temples since though the Mughals were Mulsim they ruled a massively Hundu populace plus many of the Mughals' best generals were the Hindu Rajputs. The Mughals were known for their large amount of religious tolerance and support both Mulsim and Hindu festivals and buildings.
At around the start time the Mughal Empire was in Northern India. Their capital would be in Delhi with Karachi, Calcutta, and Ahmadabad being important cities.
I must admitt the Indian faction and its armies (and rebels in the region) are almost completely unknown to me.
It will require some real support to create realistic and interesting army list and techtree for this faction.
Finally I need some information about the Rajpurs themselves - both in the army and as rebels opposing the empire.
I would be more than happy to help.
Just basics the Mughal Empire (as their name suggests) are descendants of the Mongols and as a result are a heavy cavalry army. They did use elephants but not as much as would be the case in Southern India.
As for Rebels in the region the thorn in the side of the Mughals are the Marathas just south of the Mughals in Maharashtra, the Deccan, and into East Central India. They were known for guerilla attacks on the more heavily armed Mughals.
The Rajputs are a Hindu Kshatriya (warrior) caste. They lived in Northwestern India called Rajputana or Rajasthan just above Gujarat (where Ahmadabad is) and at this time would be entirely under Mughal control. You could think of them as the knights of India. They are Proud Independant and fiercly loyal. Several legendary examples exist of them fighting to the death over suffering the dishonor of defeat. They fought as cavalry and were known to breed excellent horses. They prefered to use the sword over spear and generally used it to slash instead of thrust. They did not use heavy armor due to the heat of the Indian sub-continent.
Let me know what else you need and I'll do more research to get specifics on the military and such.
OK.
I need to re-create military (for now) of the Empire and the local rebells - from 1570 to 1700.
In general I will need to create a realistic and interesting unit roster for the empire and add couple of rebel units in the area (maybe mercenaries ?).
I will need the names of some units in the native language too - only descriptions are in English, the names are in local languages. It includes the name of the faction too.
I have very basic knwoledge about the empire's forces, almost non-existent, actually.
It is clearly the worst researched faction from those in PMTW2, so I hope you will help with that.
Actually in the beginning we will work only to prepare the best researched armies, so if India is done well it will be present too, if not it will have to wait.
For the details how it is done check Scotlad, Russia, Poland or other factions which do have the unit roster posted and described.:book:
how much of india will be in the mod because the mughals were the only indians who interacted with the other factions.
I have some interesting stuff on Mughal military organization and some pictures.
First, here is an article on Mughal military organization and composition I found:
"Introduction
This account of the Mughal army had been taken from the works of Francois Bernier, a French traveler who was attached to the court of Aurangzeb. His travels have been described in a book "Travels in the Mogul Empire, 1656 - 1668".
The troops under the King, both infantry and cavalry may be counted under two heads: one part was always near the kings person and the other was dispersed in the provinces.
Ranks and Organization
1. King
2. Omrahs
Hazari (lord of 1000 horses)
Dou Hazari (lord of 2000 horses)
Penge Hazari (lord of 5000 horses)
Deh Hazari (lord of 10,000 horses)
Douazdeh Hazari (lord of 12,000 horses, Aurangzeb’s eldest son held this title)
3. Mansabdars
4. Rouzindars
Omrah
The Mughal army was primarily organized around the king. "Chain of command" seems to be a little known concept. Under the King, there were a number of Omrahs (Nobles). Each Omrah, according to the title they were awarded by the king, was in charge of maintaining a certain number of cavalry. Omrahs were dependent on the king for the upkeep of the army and their pay was in proportion to the number of horses under them.
Two horses were generally allowed to one trooper. The horses bore the markings of the Omrah.
The number of Omars was not fixed. At any given time, there were 25-30 Omrahs at court. There would be more omrahs in the provinces.
Mansabdar
The Mansabdars are horsemen with mansab pay. A mansab pay was not as much as that for a Omrah but still considerable. They were looked on as petty Omrahs. They acknowledge no other chief but the king. Under a Mansabdar there would be two, four or six service horses that would bear the kings markings. Their number was not fixed (under Akbar the number was fixed at 66) but they are more numerous than the Omrahs. They were under the command of the King and accepted only his superiority.
Rouzindar
Rouzindars were cavaliers who were paid on a daily basis. They filled the inferior offices, mainly clerks and under-clerks.
Horsemen
The common horsemen served under the Omrahs. They are of two kinds; the first keep a pair of horses which bear the Omrahs mark on the thigh and the second only keep one horse. The former are more esteemed. There is no information on what was the rank hierarchy among these horsemen. There might have been none.
Artillery men
Most of the artillery men were foreigners – Portuguese, English, Dutch, Germans and French. Many of them were fugitives from Goa and the Dutch and English companies.
Foot soldiers
Most of them seem to be musketeers.
Artillery near the king
There were two kinds of artillery, Heavy artillery and artillery of the stirrup.
The Heavy artillery that escorted the king consisted of seventy pieces of cannon, mostly of brass each requiring twenty yoke of oxen to draw them. It also consisted of two to three hundred light camels who carried field piece the size of a double musket attached to the back of the animal.
The artillery of the stirrup consisted of fifty or sixty small brass field-pieces. Each piece was mounted on a handsomely painted carriage containing two ammunition chests, one behind and the other in front. The carriage was drawn by two horses and attended by a third horse as a relay. The light artillery was always meant to be near the kings person.
Head Counts
Army near the King (King's bodyguard)
Cavalry – 35 to 40 thousand
Infantry (musketeers, artillery and attendants) – 15 thousand
Army of the Provinces
Cavalry
Deccan – 20 to 25 thousand
Kabul – 12 to 15 thousand
Kashmir – more than 4 thousand
Bengal - ??
Infantry (musketeers, artillery and attendants) - ??"
The only possible error with this is the composition of the artillerymen. In the earlier Mughal era the artillerymen were predominantly Turkish or Persian and only later would Europeans have been employed. Also The Mughals made exstensive use of gunpowder technology as it figured prominently in their success in invading the sub-continent. They used battle wagons with muskets and artillery behind them to corral the enenmy and then send their cavalry in to finish them off or cause a rout. The Mughal's greatest strength was the ability to mobilise the massive resources of northern India, in particular huge amounts of manpower.:whip:
Her is a picture of Rajput Infantry
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...l%3Den%26lr%3D
The lighter Rajput horse would be similarly armed except with cavalry carbines. The heavier cavalry would be similar to Mughal heavy cavalry except impetuous as they viewed it as their religious duty to fight wars. Disaffected Rajputs could be used as Rebels in the region.
Here are some Mughal miniatures that depict battle scenes to give a sense of how Mughal cavalry and infantry looked along with a picture of a war elephant:
http://www.mcah.columbia.edu/dbcours...036_062102.jpg
http://www.asia.si.edu/collections/zoom/F1907.193.jpg
http://www.islamicart.com/library/em...ges/deccan.gif
http://www.hindunet.org/saraswati/elephantarmour.jpg
For rebels in the region in addition to marathas would be the Sihks. They wouldn't really use gundpowder and were generally lightly armed and used guerilla tactics.
in this image the men on the ground are Sikhs fighting Mughals (probably Rajputs in the army)
http://allaboutsikhs.com/warriors/images/bota.jpg
and here is SIkh footman
http://www.tribuneindia.com/1999/99a...unday/2tt2.jpg
Let me know if this is good and what else you need. I am trying to find the Indian names for troop types.
Zasz
I think Maratha's should be included as well, albeit, they were never subdued by the Mughals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maratha_Empire
Here is Maharaja Shivaji, leader of the Maratha confederacy in the 1600's who inflicted many defeats upon the mughals:
http://www.hindunet.org/saraswati/shivaji.jpg
If you would like, I could do some more research, but im sure someone else con provide much more than I have.
Ok I have some more info. First off I want to say finding information on the Mughal military is extremely difficult. It lacks the sometimes obsessive study of Western militaries so I am going on intuition from the sources I have found as to how the military would be set up. so first off here is a map showing the territory the Mughal Empire ruled at this time:
http://www.pbs.org/treasuresofthewor...pix/Tajmap.jpg
The ruling emperor at this time is Akbar (1556-1605) then followed by:
Jahangir 1605-1627
Shah Jahan 1627-1658
Aurangzeb 1658-1707
This is the time period of the Mughal Empire's height of power. The Mughal Empire is referred to by one historian as a "Gunpowder empire" along with the Ottomans and Persians who together were preobably the most powerful empires iin the world around this time along with China. India at this time was THE richest part of the world. It dominated the textile market until the 1800's with Europe's industrial revolution and posessed massive manpower resources. At 1700 the Mughal Empire had a population of some 100 million people. Also, it was custom for the Mughal Emperor to marry a Rajput princess to cement the bond between the two peoples. The princess was never required to convert showing the Mughal religious tolerance. There should be minimal conversion because at this time Islam had been in India for several hundred years but the sub-continent was still predominantly Hindu, especially in the South. The Mughal state at this time was highly centralized with governers changes posts every few years and their posts and positions were not hereditary although they were all nobles and aristocrats. The Court was run in Persian and the Shia version of Islam was very prevalent on the sub-continent although I believe the Mughals were Sunni.
Here is a list of military units I generated. Most of the names are basically descrptions as I could not find any sources giving their native designations aside from a few taken from the article above. so here goes:
Mansabdar Cavalry
-armed with lance, mace, and bow
-heavily armored (brigandine or chain on man and horse) with shield (round)
-Very good stamina, impetuous, noble, small unit size, Muslim
These would most likely be a bodygaurd for the Emperor and his generals or just a VERY heavy and expensive shock cavalry. They fight in the Afghani fashion and follow the tradtional use of the bow which was preferred by Mughal nobility, early on at least. Loyal only to the Emperor which gives them their Impetuosity.
Omrah's cavalry
-armed with lance and sword
-armored (man and horse) and shield (round)
-disciplined, good morale, Muslim
These are the horsemen provided by the Omrahs and are the main Mughal heavy cavalry.
Omrah's Light Horse
-armed with spear and sword
-light armor and shield (horse would be unarmored and uncovered)
-disciplined, good morale, Muslim
The less prestigous and lighter horsemen furnished by the Omrahs. They would gaurd the flanks, chase off skirmishers, and run down a routing foe.
Mughal Musketeers
-armed with muskets (matchlock) and swords
-light to medium armor
-disciplined, Muslim
Disciplined Muslim musketeers drawn from Afghan territories and from Muslim communities in India. Act as a disciplined spine to the weaker levy units.
Mughal Infantry
-armed with long spear
-medium armor
-disciplined, Muslim
Same as the Musketeers and act as defense against enemy cavalry. Cheaper than the musketeers.
Note: All Rajput forces gain bonus fighting in desert and jungle.
Rajput Noble Cavalry
-armed with spear and Sirohi (a curved Rajput sword)
-medium armor and shield (uncovered horse)
-impetuous, good stamina, fast, superb morale, Hindu
The upper crust of Rajput society. They are born to fight and do so very well though as nobility are the most impetuous. Rajputs bred excellent horses known for their speed and stamina.
Rajput Light Horse
-Armed with cavalry carbine and Sirohi
-unarmored, carry shield
-impetuous, fast, excellent stamina, superb morale, Hindu
These Rajputs may not be aristocracy but they can still afford horses and use gunpowder weapons instead of spears. Roughly equivolent to dragoons and can fight dismounted, though honor dictates they prefer to fight on horseback to show their rank. Again they ride the exceptional Rajput horses.
Rajput Infantry
-armed with musket and Sirohi
-unarmored, carry shield
-impetuous, good stamina, superb morale, Hindu
Poorer Rajputs who cannot afford horses. They will fight with muskets before charging in for hand to hand combat. Again the Rajputs are a warrior caste and are trained from birth to fight making them the best imfantry the Mughals have even if this also makes them impetuous.
Hindustani Spear Levy
-Long spear
-unarmored
-poor morale, bonus in jungle and desert, Hindu
The true advantage of Hindustan is seemingly limitless manpower. These are conscripted peasants serving as a spear line to deter enemy cavalry and to fight other light infantry. Their main strength is numbers and would never be counted on without other more stable troop types nearby.
Hindustani Musket Levy
-armed with musket and short sword or dagger
-unarmored
-poor morale, bonus in jungle and desert, Hindu
The same as the spear levy except armed with muskets and slightly more reliable, though not by much. Serve the obvious prupose of massed musket fire. They would have a lower rate of fire than the Mughal Musketeers and Rajput Infantry to reflect them being conscripted peasants.
Mughal War Elephant
-Riders armed with muskets in tower
-armored
-standard elephant attributes
Horses had replaced the elephant as the primary war animal of this period but they were still used for their shock effect on the enemy
Mughal War Carts
-war cart attributes
War carts were used heavily by the Mughals in all major battles. They used them to corrale the enemy to rain musket and artillery fire before charging in with the cavalry to finish the job.
That makes 12 units of regular troops, plus artillery which would be of Turkish and Persian design. The Mughals were appearantly quite fond of artillery and used it to great effect conquering the sub-continent.
Mughal armies would be made largely of the levy units with some of the Rajput and Mughal infantry units to give them backbone with the cavalry doing the finishing.
More later hope this is useful.
Very !:2thumbsup:
If you can post some images it would be even better.
This also concerne local fashion - to give some idea how the levy troops should look like.:egypt:
I have a book with some pictures of 17th century Indian weapons and armour, there are also the weapons of other peoples but, I don't think that is as necessary. Would you like me to post the Indian pictures?
cool thanks for the info
Useful images, thanks !
We will need to reconstruct the way each unit should look so more effort is necessary.:book:
Sorry for reposting a bunch of images but I couldn't edit my last post. Here is the unit list with pictures :2thumbsup:
Mansabdar Cavalry would look like the colorful covered horses in this miniature
http://www.mcah.columbia.edu/dbcours...036_062102.jpg
and would wear armor like this for more detail:
http://hindunet.org/saraswati/armourindian1.jpg
Omrah's cavalry:
http://rubens.anu.edu.au/raid1/cdrom...l/P1015066.JPG
a close up of their armor:
http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/p...mor/armor.html
Omrah's Light Horse would be armored similar to the cavalry except without breastplat and the horse would be unarmored.
Mughal Musketeers:
http://bss.sfsu.edu/behrooz/p-SafaviTofangchi.JPG
Mughal Infantry with bow:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._Qezelbash.JPG
Rajput Noble Cavalry:
http://www.shunya.net/Pictures/Rajas...MotiMagri2.jpg
Rajput Light Horse same as the infantry pictured here:
http://www.the-south-asian.com/Print...ing%201876.jpg
except riding the beautiful Rajput Marwari horse:
http://static.flickr.com/96/245774371_e1b4683e22_o.jpg
For the levies here are some models of native dress from India:
http://www.sights-and-culture.com/In...asthan-men.jpg
http://www.chennaimuseum.org/draft/g...ges/punjab.jpg
http://imagecache2.allposters.com/im...es-Posters.jpg
http://imagecache2.allposters.com/im...es-Posters.jpg
And here is a picture of Mughal Elephant Armor:
http://rubens.anu.edu.au/raid1/cdrom...l/P1015011.JPG
The infamous Camel Artillery:
http://www.kismeta.com/diGrasse/images/CamelCanon.jpg
A mughal heavy artillery piece:
http://worldhistoryforusall.sdsu.edu...zar_cannon.gif
and a smaller piece:
http://www.asht.info/assets/images/R...egun_Large.jpg
I also direct you to this site which has a bunch of pictures of arms and armor from the region http://www.hindunet.org/saraswati/indianarms.htm
here are some sites for Mughal Architecture:
http://www.usp.nus.edu.sg/post/india.../mughalov.html
http://members.tripod.com/IMAGE_INDIA/islamic.html
http://homepages.bw.edu/~wwwhis/mughal.html
I will get some ideas for ancillaries and buildings and put them up next along with some names and what not if you want.
Once again I hope this is useful
Zasz
I got these slides from a class I took on Indian history so thanks to Professor McGowan. These first few are images are of the Indian countryside to get a feel for what the place looks like and the diversity of the landscape.
https://img354.imageshack.us/img354/...ide1ou5.th.jpg
https://img291.imageshack.us/img291/6664/countrys
https://img291.imageshack.us/img291/...ide3nb6.th.jpg
https://img291.imageshack.us/img291/...ide4yv9.th.jpg
https://img291.imageshack.us/img291/...ide5aw7.th.jpg
the following are two maps showing Indian sea trade in the Indian Ocean and general land trade in the Muslim World
https://img256.imageshack.us/img256/...radenc2.th.jpg
https://img291.imageshack.us/img291/...utesqn3.th.jpg
and last I though this one is just interesting:
https://img291.imageshack.us/img291/...iftsze3.th.jpg
It shows European dignitaries in the court of Emporer Shah Jahan. The fact that they are relegated to outside the gate shows how minor the Europeans were in the Indian arena, and a testament to the wealth of India at the time.:egypt:
thought these might be useful:book:
Zasz
that is is a Safavid musketeer, the Mughal ones were known as bunduqchiQuote:
Originally Posted by Zasz1234
this was known as the zanburakQuote:
this is a cannon in the Kremlin in Moscow, I have seen it myself and it wasn't used by the MughalsQuote: