Desertion from crusades (was "Holy Crusaders Derserting bah!")

Ok so as the title hints I have accepted a holy crusade to help preserve Christianity and our sexy blonds. Any hoo I quickly secured some ships and moved my men from london to Jerusalem mind you which is the quickest way. I had several units desert on me. Must have been fake christians with no faith I guess. In any case I am now besieging the city of Jerusalem with the majority of my army. However why did I lose the armies I did? I mean I am moving fast as I can here lol. Portugal and Poland are moving in as I besiege as well I hope for an interesting battle. My first holy crusade yay!!!
I also just realized that there are additional forces that can be bought once you land in Jerusalem before you start your siege. Guess you gotta play around with it a bit. I still say they shouldnt have deserted "oh yee of little faith."

I suffered desertion sailing round northern Spain. Was that where it hit you? I figured it was because technically, I was sailing in the opposite direction to the Holy Land. BKS suggested sailing from southern France, which would avoid that problem - provided you are far enough in the campaign for it to be a suitable staging post.

BTW, I'm not sure I am getting the "sexy blonds" reference. Or that I want to. :inquisitive:

I have never suffered desertion then again my guy's name was Wolfgang THE CRUSADER hahaha :)

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Originally Posted by econ21

I suffered desertion sailing round northern Spain. Was that where it hit you? I figured it was because technically, I was sailing in the opposite direction to the Holy Land. BKS suggested sailing from southern France, which would avoid that problem - provided you are far enough in the campaign for it to be a suitable staging post.

BTW, I'm not sure I am getting the "sexy blonds" reference. Or that I want to. :inquisitive:

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Ok so I could hopefully get france to give me permission to move my armies to the southern french shore then pick up my ships? hmmm Interesting.

What I did was cut south east towards the Balkans then hired a mercenary fleet and went straight to Jerusalem in 3 turns.

Dumb question: Does the piety of your general affect your Crusade's desertion rate?

i did the southern french way, and asking them for permission, LOL just march through who cares wot they think. i marched my crusade straight through france to the coast near marsielle (sp) bought merc ships, sailed halfway there, landed bought some more merc ships (was worried about rebel pirate fleets) then got back on my boats and went the rest of the way, got there with no troubles, took the holy city which was sadly defended by 1 genearl and 1 unit of saracen militia. and procdeded to build as many religious buildings as i could lol. its up to like 80% catholic now :D and my 16 year old general who started the crusade is now my king with like 8 command 7 chiv, 7 piety :D and i also have the st johns head quaters in the holy city :D :D

Cheers Knoddy

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Originally Posted by LordMorgan

Ok so I could hopefully get france to give me permission to move my armies to the southern french shore then pick up my ships? hmmm Interesting.

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You don't need permission to pass from Christian factions when you're crusading and you can always buy mercenary ships near any coast usually, so if you don't want to take the land way get to marsellie buy some merc ships and sail towards the holy land. I suggest you don´t add any agents on the crusading army either cause you will lose your extra movement points heh i found that out the hard way.

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Originally Posted by Wartz

What I did was cut south east towards the Balkans then hired a mercenary fleet and went straight to Jerusalem in 3 turns.

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HmmI like this way. Sounds very very quick it took me about 12 turns all the way around spain by boat lol. But I made it lol.

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Originally Posted by Basileus

You don't need permission to pass from Christian factions when you're crusading and you can always buy mercenary ships near any coast usually, so if you don't want to take the land way get to marsellie buy some merc ships and sail towards the holy land. I suggest you don´t add any agents on the crusading army either cause you will lose your extra movement points heh i found that out the hard way.

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the downside of going overland is that if the crusade ends for whatever reason and your army is still in the middle of your neighbor, it'll trash your relations unless you can get them to give military access (or you're already at war). also that whole "oops I ran into another army and lost all my move points" thing.

also you only get 2 mercenary cogs at crusader price, plus 2 at the normal price, and that's not going to cut it against half-stack egyptian carrack fleets if you have the misfortune to run out of movement within range of one.

the best solution would be to have a good-sized fleet waiting in the mediterranean, then send your army overland. no desertions from sailing the "wrong" way and no risk of losing your entire army to the huge enemy fleets, but with the added cost of having a fleet sitting next to Italy the whole game.

Anyone know the difference between how many turns it takes to march from Denmark to Jerusalem compared to sailing there?

If they're on a ship sailing in the ocean, how in the world did they desert, did they jump overboard and just swim for shore? I mean its one thing for men to desert, but its not quite making much sense to do so AFTER you've shoved off.

I had the same thing... I went the spanish route... my conclusion was that I perhaps saled to late that way... and the later you leave.. the more of them desert (whereto on the ocean btw if your fleet keeps ist size, do they swim that well in armor?).

By the time I was in landing distance Antioch was taken by the french, my allies... grrr... so I wait a little till the french army starts to wonder around and steal their city (and imiidiatly sack the castle close to it to be able to make better troops).

the french mad of course... but putting a faew armies on their border made them send their princess in affort to become friends again...

perfect situation.. since I didnt attack egypt my ship can sail & trade there and the french are still my friends :)

oh.. and the pope... he told me to leave the french alone after I sacked antioch.. and I am.. for now *grin*

but darn.. how appealing is paris to have as a city, so central, perfect staging area for more!!

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Originally Posted by GeWee

Anyone know the difference between how many turns it takes to march from Denmark to Jerusalem compared to sailing there?

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I am currently marching from denmark to Antioch and is taking about 12 turns. What I have learned(the hard way) is that the longer it takes to get there, the better chance for desertion. GO DANES!!

I've had massive desertion problems. Even moving toward the objective with full movement points (Angers to Antioch) I was losing troops each turn. When I'd bump into a d*** rebel or the silly Milanese would block me, I'd lose 300 or so men a turn. I never made it to the target, for Venice got there first. My next crusade was from Angers to Tolouse, and I lost men on the first turn because apparently I didn't lay seige fast enough. Whatever; I lost the seige battle anyway. :laugh4:

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Originally Posted by danfda

I've had massive desertion problems. Even moving toward the objective with full movement points (Angers to Antioch) I was losing troops each turn. When I'd bump into a d*** rebel or the silly Milanese would block me, I'd lose 300 or so men a turn. I never made it to the target, for Venice got there first. My next crusade was from Angers to Tolouse, and I lost men on the first turn because apparently I didn't lay seige fast enough. Whatever; I lost the seige battle anyway. :laugh4:

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Originally Posted by Mailman653

https://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b...0-18-22-00.jpg
My faction leader, Pope....some guy (I've gone through at least 5 popes already)

An update to my campaign, I don't remember what year I am in but gun powder is relatively new. I control Corsica, Sardina, and most of Italy except for Naples and some other town near Florence. My greatest threat is from Millian, they are very untrustworthy and declare war on me every so offten curtailing my ambitions.

Some advantages of being the Papal States:

1)Whenever the pope dies, I just elect a new one from the cardinals.
2)Inqusition......need I say more?
3)Declare crusades on a whim
4)Extra leverage in diplomacy using the reconciliation option

Disavantages:

1)Serious lack of faction leaders, I have at least 2 or 3 left alive and ageing quick with no replacements in sight.
2)The Council still retains some power, when a crusade is made, where etc.

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I have been thing about this a bit and maybe this is actually more historically accurate than crusades in MTW. Desertion were common especially on long trips. So far I have noticed desertion is more common with mercenary armies.

It'd be one thing if you just lost a few to desertion every turn (like in MTW). But it specifically says that the mechanic is that they desert if you don't make enough progress. You'd think sailing around Spain and through Gibraltor would be common enough that they'd have caught it and adjusted their algorithim for 'are you making progress' accordingly.

Yeah, measuring progress as to whether you are closer to your target at the end of the turn than the beginning is a bit simplistic...

Though I have not found too many issues with walking from England to Italy and picking up mercenary ships there...

It's faster if you just run through the balkans and cross the landbridge from the Byzantine Empire into turkish lands, get a ship, and sail the rest of the way.

Why the heck would you go all the way around spain?

Crusader units cannot engage catholic units so they'll leave you alone and your movement points mean they usually won't catch up with you.

The catholic factions may not ATTACK crusading armies, but the zone of control of military units still stops them. Going overland, you have to have spies act as scouts for the army, so they can avoid concentrations of troops. Running into an army WILL stop you, and from what lots of posters have said, that stoppage translates directly into desertion. I'm still playing Byzantium, so I have no direct experience with this, but it looks to me like moving from the north to the south coast of France and sailing from there would be a lot easier than trying to make it through the area of Cisalpine Gaul (northern Italy, where Genoa, Milan, and Venice are located). Lots of troops move through there.

I hope one of those guys invented the life preserver and brought enough for all the other deserters.

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Originally Posted by Griz

the best solution would be to have a good-sized fleet waiting in the mediterranean, then send your army overland. no desertions from sailing the "wrong" way and no risk of losing your entire army to the huge enemy fleets, but with the added cost of having a fleet sitting next to Italy the whole game.

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A standing fleet in the Med could also serve a dual purpose of blockade, for crippling the economy of an enemy. I used port blockades a lot in RTW, and I assume it would have the same effect in M2TW.

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Originally Posted by Quillan

The catholic factions may not ATTACK crusading armies, but the zone of control of military units still stops them. Going overland, you have to have spies act as scouts for the army, so they can avoid concentrations of troops. Running into an army WILL stop you, and from what lots of posters have said, that stoppage translates directly into desertion.

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I read a post somewhere here that said you can avoid armies blocking you, by drawing out your movement line, watching your army march, and hit Backspace to halt if you see an army that might block you. Draw out the line again (assuming you have movement points left) and the game will compute a new path that avoids the blocking army's zone of control. Haven't tried it myself, just passing on the info. It sounds like you'd want a spy scouting ahead too.

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Originally Posted by danfda

I've had massive desertion problems. Even moving toward the objective with full movement points (Angers to Antioch) I was losing troops each turn.

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Um, did anyone watch the Crusade's DVD that came with the game? 60,000 troops left for Jerusalem, about 10,000 made it. Loosing troops on every move due to "desertion" could translate into starvation, heat exhaustion, dehydration, and the fellows who just said F-this, I'm going home.

Although Med 2 could've chosen a better word than "desertion" everytime...

The only problem being that a spy has less movement points than a crusading army :inquisitive:

:furious3: :furious3: :furious3:

After leading a huge crusading english army through the Pyranees, towards my goal of Tunis, once I crossed gibraltar, my entire army deserted, not to mention those who deserted on the way there. This made the pope hate me, put my faction leader in danger, and cost me alot of money, as most of the original units in that army were elite ones, not to mentions those mercs I hired.

How do you keep a crusading army intact?!!!:smash: I must mention that my king had no piety at all:oops:

i cant wait to get this game.

You should find this thread usefull :)
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=72402

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Originally Posted by Wizzie

The only problem being that a spy has less movement points than a crusading army :inquisitive:

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That's true, so what I do is attach the spy to the army. Seems to do the trick. It's handy if he's got some experience to increase his vision range too.

That works? I thought that since technically any attached agents arn't "on crusade" with the army the movement for the entire stack would decrease to the agent's pace rather than the spy getting washed along at crusader speed. But then again, I havn't been on crusade for about fifty turns...