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I just don'[t ever seem to get any pious Family Members. I build every church I can and play a very religious role-play. I'm always popular with the pope, go on crusades and spread the Catholic faith. yet my family members are all between 0 and 4 piety.
Has anyone actually had pious family members or generals and how on earth did you do it?
:knight:
Speak of the devil! I just posted this in the research thread, take a gander.
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Friends,
I had an idea that I was hoping to get your thoughts and feedback on. I am travelling this week and unable to do this myself so please excuse me for that.
I was thinking on the subject of generals not gaining piety very well. Has anyone tried an experiment yet where a priest or cardinal is put in the same stack as a general and seeing if their piety increases over a few turns? If this does, then GREAT! If not, then I would submit that this is an excellent idea. The higher the priest's rating, the faster and more piety the general gains. Also, I think it'd be great for the priests to gain piety as well, as they'd gain theirs by increasing another's.
What do you all think about this? If anyone does test this please let us know!
Cheers!
i had 3 priests in a crusade stack when the general commanding it got taken out by an inquisitor - didnt get a chance to see if the general had gained any piety along the way mind you.
I did try this with an earlier game but didnt see any benefit - but givent hat the priest were all total newbies it may not have been a particularly relevant experience.
The theory DOES make sense, after all.
My own piety problem is more along the lines of always getting saddled with fricken Pagan Wizards whenever my generals are in lands not 95% Catholic... If only they were into those "dark arts" all the way and learnt how to conjure demons, cast fireballs and rains of frogs, play D&D, anything ! :laugh4:
Building the best church your city can build does appear to build piety up somewhat though, I have many governors with "Believer"-like traits, but by themselves those traits are not enough to go beyond 3/4, especially when made void by those stupid pagans... So far, the only thing I found to significantly boost piety is a successful crusade. All of my crusading leaders to the Levant have ended as juggernauts, ultra-chivalrous, ultra-godfearing, ultra-loyal, even though they started their voyage as wimps. Problem being, you can only crusade ever so often...
Also, not piety related, but this is why we want to build piety up, I have noticed that, oddly enough, my governors in cities with the last tax level (crushing taxes or something like that, I have the French version so don't know what the original term is) all seem to turn into "inefficient taxmen" sooner or later... Wasn't it the opposite in MTW/Rome ? You'd get traits making you even better a taxman, but reducing order/upping squalor ? Maybe that's a side effect of the "Tax Farmer" ancilliary they also all seem to get sooner or later, though.
I get the feeling we're going to find the name of that trait or ancilliary is "secretly_wiccan". :inquisitive: Next thing we're going to see as a trait "secretly addicted to drizzt porn".Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobal2fr
My findings are in line with yours. Have you tried to stick a priest with decent piety in your general's army stack yet? I'm really chomping at the bit to find out what people make of that. Irregardless, I still say it's a great idea to rack up the piety.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobal2fr
I *think* this was posted by someone else, but the actual trigger for that "bad taxman" thing fires every turn and has something like a 4% chance if the taxes are ANYTHING less than "heavy taxes". Someone can correct me here though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobal2fr
It did occur to me, but my priests were as spiritually convincing as wet socks at the time, so... Will have to test it some more with a faction that doesn't have to send its priests halfway across the world to find heresy to stamp on. It did seem to hold off the pagan sorcerers a bit though, but then again it might have been a fluke.Quote:
Originally Posted by Whacker
Well that's pretty much my point : I'm never ever below the heaviest tax setting. I'd rather have a revolt on my hands than lower taxes. I'm the Sting of kings : every breath you take, every move you make, every claim you stake I'll be taxing you. And still I'm an "inefficient" taxman... What do they expect of me, to sack the town every year ?!Quote:
Originally Posted by Whacker
Sounds to me like it's a bug. Wish I could help you verify but I won't be able to until next Tues. Irregardless, might want to toss it up in the bugs thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobal2fr
Cheers!
plz dont ever type irregardless ever again...
and yes a priest stacked with yer general does keep the pagans away. and i even thought it got rid of one once. however i havent been able to duplicate it yet...not even with a cardinal...
http://www.webster.com/dictionary/irregardlessQuote:
Originally Posted by Zharatustra
Must suck posting as a non-english speaker in an english-based site huh. My apologies for having a vocabulary that extends beyond "zomg lolz".
heh, thank you so much for the link... i actually have that .wav file as a ring tone...
my comment was totally without malice...
Then you have my apology. Next time, throwing some good grammar and context around your comment would help me understand that it was made in jest... and not to be snarky. :idea2: :beam:Quote:
Originally Posted by Zharatustra
Having the Family Member in a city or castle and you train priests and build churches help get some, then theres some virtues you can get that will progress and end up giving alot of piety. My current game with the English Robert that starts in Caen is Prince Robert the Saint now and is stationed in Jerusalem and hes piety is at 9 chivalry at 10 and loyalty at 10, the virtue he got as a Saint ruler gave 5 chivarly and 3 piety iirc alone.
Thanks for the feedback and info Basileus. I think one of my major objections at this point is that there doesn't seem to be a good passive or semi-passive way to gain good piety. Building churches and pumping out priests has it's limitations, and can only be done so often. Going on crusades sends your guys halfway across the damn world when you have a need for high-chiv high-piety guys on your front lines.Quote:
Originally Posted by Basileus
Hopefully therother and crew can help with some research here, and maybe CA will start giving us some game mechanics feedback. That and a few of our suggestions would be good.
Cheers!
So far, I experienced attaching priest to general seems gradually increase his piety so that he has better chance to avoid Pagan Magician retinue. General with more than 5 piety seem immune to Pagan.
However, keeping priest inside town seem to make him vulnerable to heretic belief. I experienced twice that priest turned to heretic when I kept him in town quite long time. Town in question was highly catholic, so priest didn't developed more piety as well.
:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobal2fr
To avoid getting Sloppy taxman trait, I also pay attention to keep tax level high. But what about CASTLE? 2 of my general in castle developed -10% tax and -20% tax traits!!! :furious3:
If your vocalbularty includes "irregardless" which contains two negatives, ir- and -less, and thus is the vocabulary equivalent of a double negative, then it's probably not a good idea to link to the notorious Merriam-Webster's Dictionary which includes many inane colloquialisms and calls them "American" English.Quote:
Originally Posted by Whacker
Perhaps the American Heritage dictionary states the problem best:
American Heritage Dictionary -
adv. Nonstandar. Regardless.
[Probably blend of irrespective, and regardless.]
Usage Note: Irregardless is a word that many mistakenly believe to be correct usage in formal style, when in fact it is used chiefly in nonstandard speech or casual writing. Coined in the United States in the early 20th century, it has met with a blizzard of condemnation for being an improper yoking of irrespective and regardless and for the logical absurdity of combining the negative ir- prefix and -less suffix in a single term. Although one might reasonably argue that it is no different from words with redundant affixes like debone and unravel, it has been considered a blunder for decades and will probably continue to be so.
(American Heritage dictionary - 4th edition. Irregardless)
Even in the Merriam-Webster's definition, you appear to have missed the final portion:
"Its reputation has not risen over the years, and it is still a long way from general acceptance. Use regardless instead."
While one may also take exception to Zharatustra's poor usages as well, your usage of irregardless is still incorrect.
For a more complete survey of irregardless in various dictionaries, go here:
http://www.hfac.uh.edu/English/class...egardless.html
Note: the above was done tongue-in-cheek in response to Watcher's overly aggressive response to Zharatustra. :wink:
Back on topic, piety would be a less important subject if inquisitors were not inappropriately invincible. Having your crusader army stack disappear because of an overzealous inquisitor is extremely annoying. No amount of adjusting piety is going to compensate for the inquisitor problem. They need to be fixed by CA.
I think after building my first cathedral and making some bishops at some point got my general in that city a priest in his retinue, also i've seen deacons as retinue members about due to this (i believe).
Seems a very slow trait though, more so than dread lol my last 4 kings have all had the 'master of assassins' & 'master of spies' traits that make them totally bad a$$ individuals ... thing is I spend just as much time converting the middle east as i do spreading out my spy network and assassins. And I pounce on heretics immediately even in regions that are not controlled by me (ups my priest ratings). Also as the Pope has been of my faction for about the last 5, I'd expect a 'Pope maker' trait or some sort of piety increase but no.
Most of my generals just get the 'properly religious' +1 trait but is normally offset by another, not pagan magicians tho as these haven't appeared in my game for quite some time now.
I've honestly stopped caring about piety for my generals. Long before an Inquisitor gets a chance to burn any of them, he usally goes for one of my priests. After that, I know where he lurks and I just avoid his effective range with my valuable commanders. On the other hand, I send any unloyal/insane/just plain bad generals/heirs at him to be easily rid of them before they can turn on me. Muahahaha :whip:
For Crusades, I take to the sea ASAP, it's faster, safer, and Inquisitors can't swim too well. :laugh4:
What I find disturbing is that Inquisitors even purge characters that don't even have a piety rating, such as diplomats and spies. How am I supposed to avoid that??? :inquisitive: Unworthy priests, ok, but spies??
As for the taxes, I have abandoned governors altogether, as sooner or later, they all get bad traits (bad with taxes, increased build costs, higher unrest, etc...) - why bother? As long as loyalty is above 95%... In my campaign, Edinburgh has 19000 inhabitants and is easily kept at 105% with only 7 garrisoned militia.