How to see whether a particular faction is excommunicated?

In MTW 1, one could see that a particular faction is excommunicated by the look of crosses on the profiles of the generals of that faction, broken crosses indicating the faction has been excommunicated.

I have not found a reliable way to do that in MTW 2 yet other than trying to remember/write down whenever the Pope excommunicates someone or reconciles with them, which can become painful if a few days pass since the last game.

The Pope-o meter has proven not to be a reliable tool since some factions are not actually excommunicated while the meter is at zero. The opposite holds true too - some factions have one or two bars of positivie Pope's attitude while still excommunicated.

Anybody has noticed some other way to tell?

I haven't found any way either in M2TW. Whether or not there is some way, I loved your idea of it being evident on the Pope-o-matic-meter-chart screen. I most humbly suggest that you, as the owner of the original idea, shove this in the patch wishlist thread. :bow:

I believe that information is available on the diplomatic screen. Hold the cursor over the faction's emblem and see if it tells you.

Actually, I think it does tell you on the Pope-o-Meter screen. If you hover your cursor over the number of crosses a faction has, I believe it will say something about the Pope having "denounced" the faction if they have been excommunicated.

I thought if a faction did not have any crosses in the pope screen it was excommunicated, i will have to check it out in game.

The pope-o-meter of excommunicated factions drops to zero when they are excommunicated, but it can climb back up before they are reconciled. I've seen France get back up to 4 on the scale and only get a reconciliation with a change of Pope. The tooltip on that screen is the only way you can tell, which means for a muslim or orthodox faction you can't tell, because you don't get the notifications either.

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Originally Posted by Quillan

The pope-o-meter of excommunicated factions drops to zero when they are excommunicated, but it can climb back up before they are reconciled. I've seen France get back up to 4 on the scale and only get a reconciliation with a change of Pope. The tooltip on that screen is the only way you can tell, which means for a muslim or orthodox faction you can't tell, because you don't get the notifications either.

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Muslims and Orthodox don't get excommunicated. They are alreay schismatics/heathens...

Well, for muslims and orthodox it does not matter that much. All catholics are kind of your enemies anyway. The only game-play advantage of knowing whether someone is excommunicated would be if it did not upset the Pope if you attacked a region of an excommunicated catholic faction. In case you wanted to keep peace with him.

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Originally Posted by Quillan

The pope-o-meter of excommunicated factions drops to zero when they are excommunicated, but it can climb back up before they are reconciled. I've seen France get back up to 4 on the scale and only get a reconciliation with a change of Pope. The tooltip on that screen is the only way you can tell, which means for a muslim or orthodox faction you can't tell, because you don't get the notifications either.

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I will double check about the Pope-o-meter tooltips and the diplomacy shields. My memory tells me, I could not get them to display anything about excommunication.

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Originally Posted by Havard

Muslims and Orthodox don't get excommunicated. They are alreay schismatics/heathens...

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Right. That's why they don't get notices from the Pope about excommunications, which was what the post said.

hold ur mouse over the faction shields on the Pope O meter, and if that faction is ecomuted it tells you iirc. and no there is no way for non catholic factions to tell, they dont get notices about exomution and they cant look at the pope o meter.


CHeers Knoddy

Knoddy is right...

Also, the number of crosses a faction has in the Pope-o-Meter isn't necessarily indicative of excommunication. For example, in my current campaign, Milan and the HRE have no crosses - the pope wants them to burn in hell but has not yet excommunicated them. Meanwhile, Venice has four crosses and is currently excommunicated...

I like the tooltip for a faction that is not excommunicated but is at zero on the meter: "His Holiness thinks the fires of hell are too good for XXXX". :laugh4:

OK, I just went back and did a very, very rudimentary test using my English campaign.

Managed to get myself excommunicated assaulting ze french-types-ah. My standing on the Pope-o-meter showed 0, and holding the mouse over the crosses indeed said "the pope has denounced this faction, excommunicating them". Holding the mouse over the shield only displayed the factions name, nothing more. I guess to clarify my post earlier, it'd be nice if there would be some kind of changed graphic in regards to the faction's shield, like it being broken, or there some kind of broken cross superimposed over it to make it obvious.

Would be nice to hear from others who can see on their Pope-o-meter other factions who they know for sure have been excommunicated. Also would be interesting to know if it's possible to have a 1 or 0 standing w/the Pope and not be excommunicated.

Cheers!

The best, only, way to find out if their excommunicated is to go to the Pope-O-Meter. Once your their, put your mouse cursor over the coss axis of a faction and wait a couple seconds. You'll get a popup that will tell you the current popes feelings about that faction. It will also mention if their excommunicated, or if the pope just loathes them. Having 0 crosses doesnt mean their excommunicated, but its a good indicator to check into it further.

Does excommunication effect a faction's validity as a target for jihad? I was trying to call a jihad against Sofia (a large Hungarian castle) and could not do so. The Hungarians had been at war with me for a while, but had not taken any of my lands. I theorised that perhaps (whether it is bug or feature) an excommunicated faction could not be the target of a jihad.

Another important part of the pope-o-meter is even if the the faction hasn't been excom'd if your standing is high enough you can call for a crusade against cathlic nations, mostly their captial. a great to way make wars and lift your standing. i used this method everytime one of the other factions gets excommed.

Why would an Imam give a damn what the Pope says? Islam is an enemy of all christian religions (in the game ;). So when the Pope excoms someone, it doesn't affect Jihads. Nor does it affect orthodox christians. Excom is only important as when excomed, catholic factions attacking another catholic faction is fair game. if a catholic faction wages war on another without papal consent, they will worsen relations and sooner or later face excom. Also depends who of the 2 the pope like better...

Voice of experience from playing Byzantium speaking: attacking units of a catholic faction, regardless of circumstances, causes a lowering of the relationship status with the Papal States faction. Too low a relationship with the Papal States results in crusades called against you. Therefore, it is beneficial to war only against excommunicated catholic factions when you are still on good terms with the papacy. They do not always give you a choice in the matter however.

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Originally Posted by Quillan

The tooltip on that screen is the only way you can tell, which means for a muslim or orthodox faction you can't tell, because you don't get the notifications either.

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Originally Posted by Quillan

Voice of experience from playing Byzantium speaking: attacking units of a catholic faction, regardless of circumstances, causes a lowering of the relationship status with the Papal States faction. Too low a relationship with the Papal States results in crusades called against you. Therefore, it is beneficial to war only against excommunicated catholic factions when you are still on good terms with the papacy. They do not always give you a choice in the matter however.

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I'm confused - so how do you tell, playing as Byzantines/Muslims, which Catholic factions are excommunicated and which aren't :inquisitive:

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Originally Posted by Quillan

Voice of experience from playing Byzantium speaking: attacking units of a catholic faction, regardless of circumstances, causes a lowering of the relationship status with the Papal States faction. Too low a relationship with the Papal States results in crusades called against you. Therefore, it is beneficial to war only against excommunicated catholic factions when you are still on good terms with the papacy. They do not always give you a choice in the matter however.

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Some counter-experience here. In my Byzantium campaign I fought constantly with Venice and Hungary, but had a decent relationship with the Papal States right up until I sneak attacked them. Taking Venice, even with a Venetian pope, did not significantly affect my standing with the Papal States.

Touch one of their precious crusades, though, and your relationships with all catholic factions plummet.

Ok, since I opened the thread, I guess, I will try to close it too :) Yes, holding a cursor over the Pope-o-meter bar will in due time show a too-tip saying whether a faction is excommunicated. However, I think, this is not available to non-Catholic factions (if one wants to play a considerate orthodox King, for example, not attacking good catholics - only the bad ones)

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Originally Posted by Basilakes En Strategoisin

I'm confused - so how do you tell, playing as Byzantines/Muslims, which Catholic factions are excommunicated and which aren't :inquisitive:

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That's just it, you can't. It's a fairly safe bet if a catholic faction is at war with 3-4 other catholic factions all at the same time (actively at war, meaning fighting battles all the time) then it has been excommunicated.

Well, Temujin, I was at war with Venice and Hungary most of the early part of my Byzantine campaign too. Venice started it by marching in and besieging Thessalonica. I relieved the siege, which caused my relations with the Papal states to drop. They'd blockade a port, I'd break the blockade, and my Papal States relationship would get worse. The only time I didn't have a lowering when I attacked one of their units was when I was pretty sure they were excommunicated.