Ransom: how often?

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12-01-2006, 13:49
Vlad Tzepes

Ransom: how often?

I love the idea of being able to get a ransom for releasing prisoners. I missed the feature in RTW, I enjoyed it in MTW 1.

But what I notice is that in my English campaign (m/vh) now in MTW2, ransom seldom works. In 8 out of 10 attempts, the AI rejects the ransom offer and the prisoners get killed. :thumbsdown:

I'm not even the richest faction in game - as a matter of fact, my finances are low ranked in every year's (or turn?) report and quite often I end up in debt turn after turn. The biggest ransom I could ever get from the AI was something around 2.000 fl, the biggest rejected was over 10.000, but I get turned down for requests as small as 35 fl. :inquisitive:

I'd like to see ransom work out well more often - well it would certainly help my finances! In MTW, you could get rich quick if you captured the enemy's king or heir or family members...

On the other hand, I'd love to have a decision left towards prisoners even after the AI refuses to pay the ransom - it shouldn't be like "no money - instant death". Add to that the prisoners voices when you hover your mouse over options ("Yeeess, yes! Our king will pay, think about the money!" - well I DO think about the money, all the time! :laugh4: ) - they always hint ransom will work.

Do you guys get ransoms often?
12-01-2006, 13:56
Rothe

Re: Ransom: how often?

I think the reason for not paying up is that the faction in question does not have the funds.

I find that ofter my enemy seems to be broke as they are using all their income in building more troops and buildings. I do not think it really is a serious fault, but the AI probably spends a lot when it goes to war and even uses up reserve funds that it has accumulated.

I think the ransom could also be less if they do not have more money (instead of execution), the enemy could do a proposition much like in the diplomacy screen.
12-01-2006, 16:40
Vlad Tzepes

Re: Ransom: how often?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rothe

I think the reason for not paying up is that the faction in question does not have the funds.

Of course it is, mon ami, but if I'm not doing well, and if the factions I'm at war with (lots of them) are broke, then who gets all the money? :inquisitive:

Which is the biggest ransom you guys cashed in? And what about enemy kings, anybody managed to capture one and get a ransom?
12-01-2006, 16:57
past caring

Re: Ransom: how often?

It's a bit of a pain the way it works at the moment - I think I've only got one ransom, ever. Must have had seventy or eighty refused in my current game. A diplomatic option would be good, though perhaps a bit hard to code. The ability to ransom individual units rather than the entirety of those captured might also be better......

In reality, the decision wasn't one of "pay the ransom now or we execute instantly" - it wasn't uncommon for captured nobles and royalty to be held for years on end until their families could afford the ransom. So, at the moment, what could be quite an interesting game feature is really no more than extraneous tinsel. Not a game breaker, though - at least there's no piety or chivalry loss if prisoners are executed and you've offered to ransom first.
12-01-2006, 17:08
Jagger

Re: Ransom: how often?

Ransom is definitely related to whether the nation has funds or not. Rich nations usually pay the ransom. Broke nations normally don't.

The downside to paid ransom is you often end up fighting the very same troops again shortly afterwards.
12-01-2006, 17:09
danfda

Re: Ransom: how often?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlad Tzepes

Which is the biggest ransom you guys cashed in? And what about enemy kings, anybody managed to capture one and get a ransom?

Yep, and nope. It was a Hungarian king, IIRC. Caught the bastage and his hiers said "Thanks!" and scampered off. Bugger...his ransom was huge...

The highest ransom I've yet gotten was about 3k florins or something. Still, I offer it every time, even if I want to execute mine enemies, knowing that the AI has an aversion to saving itself...
12-17-2006, 08:27
zandor

Re: Ransom: how often?

That's odd... in my game so far the AI has usually paid. Most of them have just been a couple hundred florins though.

The one time I got an at all significant amount as a ransom demand the AI didn't pay. I think it was 700 & change.
12-17-2006, 09:52
BigTex

Re: Ransom: how often?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlad Tzepes

Of course it is, mon ami, but if I'm not doing well, and if the factions I'm at war with (lots of them) are broke, then who gets all the money? :inquisitive:

Which is the biggest ransom you guys cashed in? And what about enemy kings, anybody managed to capture one and get a ransom?

I've caught a milanese king, he had a ransom of over 10,000 alone, plus around 600 troops. The total ransom was 13,000, but even for their king they refused. I've even gotten a king and a familay member from the danes, they had a ransom of 17,000, it too was rejected.

Seems like the AI doesnt like to keep it's kings. I think they need to add back the feature from MTW of being able to go into debt in order to pay for a ransom.
12-17-2006, 10:08
KARTLOS

Re: Ransom: how often?

perhaps you should be forced to go inot deb to ransom a king -more historiical?
12-17-2006, 10:41
Ciaran

Re: Ransom: how often?

In MTW I you can borrow money if you have no cash to ransom back your prisoners, the only occassion where you can go into debt actively (the other way is running up such a large payroll bill that your income can´t handle it, of course, which still works in RTW - I don´t know about MIITW).

Quote:

In reality, the decision wasn't one of "pay the ransom now or we execute instantly" - it wasn't uncommon for captured nobles and royalty to be held for years on end until their families could afford the ransom.

Yep, remember Richard Lionheart, or the Duke of Orleans after the battle of Agincourt, it took about fifteen years before the latter was exchanged for the Earl of Somerset (who was a prisoner for almost as long), and one of Henry V´s claims that refuelled the Hundred Years War in 1419 was the still unpaid ransom for King Jean, long since deceased at the time.
12-17-2006, 11:47
Kobal2fr

Re: Ransom: how often?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciaran

In MTW I you can borrow money if you have no cash to ransom back your prisoners, the only occassion where you can go into debt actively (the other way is running up such a large payroll bill that your income can´t handle it, of course, which still works in RTW - I don´t know about MIITW).

Still does, I can vouch for that :laugh4:.
In fact, the funny thing is that if you do end up supporting too many troops for your economy, and get yourself in debt... you gain chivalry for setting taxes to low :laugh4:. "Bah ! who careth for these moneylenders, our good Lord will provide !"

I like the idea of being able to get into debt to pay ransoms. I didn't remember that, and it's certainly the only way the AI will *ever* pay 17k king ransoms, since it is very careful to spend as much as it can to avoid empire-wide corruption.

The problem I can see there is that if the AI can get itself in debt to ransom, it will consistently do so and run its economy even further down in the ground than it already does :/ That trick worked in MTW because the AI got free cash every turn, but in M2TW, it doesn't get any cheaty help AFAIK.

Besides, would *you* pay 10k just to keep a good general who probably has just picked bad traits from his defeat, king or not, unless he had no heirs at all ?

Highest ransom I got from the AI was 1800ish from Milan for a whole lot of crossbowmen, something like 3 or 4 full units-worth.
12-17-2006, 12:00
Lord Magus

Re: Ransom: how often?

I got 8K once, when I captured 2 scottish family members+a few soldiers.
12-17-2006, 12:06
GonZ

Re: Ransom: how often?

I'd like it if you could enter post battle diplomatic negotiations to arrange prisoner exchange.

This would allow you to take/give a period of tribute, or negotiate a ceasefire or take/give land in return for key prisoners. More realistic?
12-17-2006, 13:59
PureFodder

Re: Ransom: how often?

I've never had anything over 2-3k, usually even tiny ransoms get rejected. At least you can feel a little more honourable as it isn't your fault the prisoners are getting executed....
12-17-2006, 15:44
Stig

Re: Ransom: how often?

I once got about 6k for only a single family member, he and his bodyguard were alone after a battle in which he managed to escape but his army got slaughtered, my second army attacked him, and without movement points he had to fight. But then, that was in the beginning of the war. Later on ransom didn't work anymore as we were both broke.

Was frustrating tho as the enemy captured my king (5 command, and all other things high too) and I was out of money :furious3:
12-17-2006, 17:13
trickydicky

Re: Ransom: how often?

I find that unless it's for only a few hundred florins, the AI doesn't seem to pay it.
I'm sure there are exceptions, but they never seem to happen to me.

I usually just release them or execute them, depending on whether I'm going for a chiv or dread general.

I find that if you work on your economy, money isn't really an issue after a while, so ransoming loses it's appeal to me fairly quickly.
12-17-2006, 19:09
Zenicetus

Re: Ransom: how often?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jagger

Ransom is definitely related to whether the nation has funds or not. Rich nations usually pay the ransom. Broke nations normally don't.

That's been my experience. I might get one or two successful ransom payments in the early phase of a war, but from the mid to late phase when I'm grinding it down to the last provinces, the faction just doesn't have any spare cash.

Quote:

The downside to paid ransom is you often end up fighting the very same troops again shortly afterwards.

Yep, and it's especially nasty if I'm ransoming a captured general/family member with a high star rank, who killed a bunch of troops before I could take him down, and he'll do it again next time (unless I get lucky with a catapult hit... heh). I usually go for ransoms anyway when playing a Catholic faction, because I think it affects your standing with the Pope when you kill prisoners. And I have a hard enough time with that.
12-17-2006, 20:53
HicRic

Re: Ransom: how often?

I picked up a beefy 12K ransom on a Danish king a few turns ago, cha-ching! I immediately spent most of it on a Citadel, so expensive!
12-17-2006, 22:08
Beelzebub

Re: Ransom: how often?

I think in MTW1 the AI would almost always do the ransom, and even if they went 10,000 florins into debt. In this game the AI has been programmed not to go into debt (are you even allowed to?).
12-17-2006, 22:14
IrishArmenian

Re: Ransom: how often?

I would love it if the ransom was not payed, you could make them your own troops.
12-18-2006, 01:32
GrandInquisitor

Re: Ransom: how often?

I got over 16k from the Mongols the other day for survivors of one of their elite armies (after a failed assault on the hardened Crusader city of Jerusalem). There might have been a general in there too, but I didn't really pay attention at the time.
12-18-2006, 01:46
Burns

Re: Ransom: how often?

I recall that In MTW a ransomed army was not usable for several turns (they just spawn back in one of your provinces). I wonder if the same can be applied in M2 where those captured (especially family members) would respawn after a few turns in a controlled territority. It would be stupid to crush an army, then have it ransomed back right outside the gates of the city you were intending to take.
12-18-2006, 02:25
Merlin's Apprentice

Re: Ransom: how often?

When your the richest nation at 4000 florins
you know there is a problem with the AI making money
no money no ransom

ive increased all factions kings_denari to try fatten them up
they spend it just as fast
12-18-2006, 02:28
fabiano

Re: Ransom: how often?

Hi,

It is about the nation funding. The Aztecs always pay. They pay 30000, for their emperor and a lot of troops in my campaign.

Fabiano
12-18-2006, 05:48
IPoseTheQuestionYouReturnTheAnswer

Re: Ransom: how often?

Heh, I never ransom any troops, ever, under any circumstances. If you fight me and run away during the battle, you're going nowhere but to the Janissary Firing Squad.

I love that gunfire execution sound.
12-18-2006, 07:04
professorspatula

Re: Ransom: how often?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merlin's Apprentice

When your the richest nation at 4000 florins
you know there is a problem with the AI making money
no money no ransom

ive increased all factions kings_denari to try fatten them up
they spend it just as fast

It's true the AI seems clueless when it comes to its economy, as well as most other things to be honest. Try this: start a campaign with a faction in a position to avoid lots of early AI aggression: Scotland, Danes etc. Give yourself as many florins as you count on a million hands. Tech up your provences like no tomorrow so you're safe from the AI's attention. Now start spreading your wealth around. Gifts of 100,000 here, 10,000 florin tributes for 20 turns there. It doesn't matter who you give the cash to, it'll all be gone within a few turns and the faction will have gone from ludicrously rich to paupers again, albeit with slightly better teched up settlements than before. I was expecting to see massive armies spring up, but the funds had dried up before they had a chance to train many more units. In MTW1, you gave the AI crazy money, they'd train endless numbers of troops, bribe every army in sight, then bankrupt themself when they forgot to consider the implications of the soaring troop upkeep costs. Seems in M2TW, they prefer to squander the money on whorehouses, gambling dens, overpriced fake Gucci accessories and other non-essential purchases. Saving up for a rainy day is something the AI has yet to master. Still it's only a game, and it's good to know that on this evidence, artificial intelligence hasn't yet reached the stage where it becomes so clever, that no only is it a challenge to us, but it questions its own existence, decides to go renegade and turn on its human masters, building an evil army of cyborgs with Austrian accents hellbent on wiping us all out. We still have a few years before the apocalypse yet.
12-18-2006, 07:47
Whacker

Re: Ransom: how often?

Quote:

Originally Posted by professorspatula

Seems in M2TW, they prefer to squander the money on whorehouses, gambling dens, overpriced fake Gucci accessories and other non-essential purchases.

So you're saying you OBJECT to being well armed and fashionable at the same time?? How pedestrian!

Quote:

Originally Posted by professorspatula

Still it's only a game, and it's good to know that on this evidence, artificial intelligence hasn't yet reached the stage where it becomes so clever, that no only is it a challenge to us, but it questions its own existence, decides to go renegade and turn on its human masters, building an evil army of cyborgs with Austrian accents hellbent on wiping us all out. We still have a few years before the apocalypse yet.

I think the first true sign of the Apocalypse is when Bethesda releases a bug free game at launch. :grin:

@ OP

I've gone with releasing only in my latest campaign. In short, anything possible to squeak through and get some Chivalry. Dread is cool and all but Chiv seems to have better benefits overall.

Cheers!:balloon2: