An example of how misleading stats in M2Tw are

In my attemtps to do a workaround for the 2 handed bug i've come to realise how misleading a units stats are, as a units animation is very important as this is a key factor in deciding the kill rate of a unit.

For instance, i've given the Varangian Guard the animation of the Tabardariyya, and i've also tried to make them more powerful as i felt they were too weak in vanilla M2Tw.

These are stats i have now given them:

Attack: 38(armour piercing bonus)
Defense: 18
Cost: 720

and they lose to Janisarry Heavy Infantry with stats of:

Attack: 14(boosted it slighty, armour piercing bonus, spear bonus(so good against cav))
Defense: 10
Cost: 820

On paper Varangians should wipe the floor with JHI, but in actual battles they lose, though it is a very close fight. Animations are a major factor now in how well a unit performs and are the main contributor to the misleading unit stats.

I now find unit costs a much better way of judging how effective a unit is in combat.

Yes. Also need to point out that the values are on a curve; the higher they go the less of an effect they will have.

Peasant cost : 90
Spear militia : 250ish (can't recall right now)

Guess who wins ? :sweatdrop:

But it's true that weapons matter much more than stats in this game. I go with unit description and "sensible" use, and that works for me most of the time (except of course when inf will not attack cav at all, but that's another matter).

Peasants (English) have a whooping defense skill of 4, while, for militia the defense skill is only 1 if I remember correctly... The rest of their defense comes from the shield. This means, that "in the heat of it", peasants are better protected than spear militia unless militia is hit from the side of the shield.

Add to that, that peasants do not appear to have "spear attribute" to their weapon (even though it's just a pitchfork), so as someone guessed here, they are treated as swords, swords versus spears in the case of peasants against militia.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kobal2fr

Peasant cost : 90
Spear militia : 250ish (can't recall right now)

Guess who wins ? :sweatdrop:

But it's true that weapons matter much more than stats in this game. I go with unit description and "sensible" use, and that works for me most of the time (except of course when inf will not attack cav at all, but that's another matter).

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Peasants beat spears due to the rock paper scissors balance (In which sword beats spear, spear beats cavalry, cavalry beats sword).

Try changing the Varangian Guard to the Eagle Warrior animation. It's basically the same as the VG or Tabardariyya but faster.

The main problem with that whole line of animations though is how rarely they attack...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Slaists

Peasants (English) have a whooping defense skill of 4, while, for militia the defense skill is only 1 if I remember correctly... The rest of their defense comes from the shield. This means, that "in the heat of it", peasants are better protected than spear militia unless militia is hit from the side of the shield.

Add to that, that peasants do not appear to have "spear attribute" to their weapon (even though it's just a pitchfork), so as someone guessed here, they are treated as swords, swords versus spears in the case of peasants against militia.

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The Turkish Peasants who are 1 and 1 in stats win as well, as do Peasant Archers.

And Spear Militia are 310 florins.

The RPS of spear vs sword is unused. That line in the units file is leftover from RTW, before they decided to use the mount_effect bonus. The new attribute for spear is increased mass to front while in defense mode. However, defense mode makes them useless at actually fighting. I have to take my pikemen and sergeants off defense mode before they start poking.