Things you miss about MTW.

Ok, this isn't a gripe session to start off the discussion! I consider MTW and MTW2 apples and oranges, so this isn't the place for comparison and contrast.

I miss the regional units, like the special archers in Genoa and such. I felt that they added a lot more value to certain areas than just land strips with a settlement on top.

I also kind of miss Flanders. Antwerp and Bruges just don't have the same feel anymore. I still remember raking in upwards of around five thousand florins a turn off of just flanders. :)

Anyone else?

I miss the gameplay

.......Orda

Regional units are still somewhat present in the form of mercenaries, but I agree that there's not enough of them, especially in western Europe where it's 90% vanilla crossbow + vanilla spearman. Easy to mod back in though. I miss historical bonuses though (ie +1 valor to such and such units trained in this region)

I also miss catapult bounce. Silly, but sooo funny when one boulder bounced precisely smack in the middle of 3 or 4 different units in a row :laugh4:

Titles, of course. Nothing like making a general who's never seen the sea in his whole life a Grand Admiral of the Fleet.

Malta :shame:

I miss the superior gameplay, the battle AI, dismounting cavalry and many other little things. Recently I installed MTW and was suprised that I lost two custom battles to AI in a row. Years of playing RTW and now MTW2 have made me weak tactician. MTW is healthy for your brain.

I deffinatly miss the regional units i always made switzerland a priority territory to capture in M:TW. I Also miss the way reinforcements worked i realy dont like the way it works now it was far better being able to select which unit you wanted as a reinforcement and being able to set a rally point. I also miss the way you could have 3 stacks in one for cruesadeing armies and the way you could pass through a different territtory and get loads of different types of units from different factions (deffinatly more realistic). TBH i think the whole cruesading eliment in M2:TW is a massive set backwards compared to M:TW which is a shame really.

As ive stated in another thread gameplay wise M:TW was a massivley supperior game IMO there was so much more to the tacticks. The thing that saves M2:TW is the grahpics though its like watching one of the big battles in lord of the rings there that good. And this is coming from someone that isnt a graphics junkie i'd always take gameplay over graphics in any game but there just awesome in M2:TW.

I miss Flanders too! :laugh4: That place was a gold mine!

Main thing I miss....the MTW unit roster. MTW2 seems very much- spear militia, spearmen, elite spearmen...peasant archers, militia archers, elite archers etc etc...in other words- not as interesting...for the most part.

Region specific troops also (is there a way to mod that back in?)

I also miss the ceremonial varangian guard...they might not have been realistic, but damn they were cool!

Titles!

I agree, it is the regional units that I miss most. Switzerland, Ireland, and Iberian provinces I thought were best. Then after VI came out Swabia and Moldavia were nice too in the early game.

I have always thought that in this period that units should be mostly regional rather than national...nationalisam was only present in England at the time and that was restricted to the English, not any Continental possessions.

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Originally Posted by Orda Khan

I miss the gameplay

.......Orda

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I auto resolve a number of my battles, which I never used to do.

The campaign map part is great in M2TW, but the battle portion is not nearly as addicting as MTW was this soon after it was released.

Regional units, emerging/re-emerging factions, higher chevron limit, factionleader influences your national economy, chance of eliminating spies/assassin using watchtowers, framing a general, spying to uncover secret traits to make them worse traits, murdering your own generals/family members, murdering your leader!

All those things I miss from MTW

I miss the Moroccan delivery service I had when I played MTW. I always ordered from them when I was playing long nights and they often delivered after they offcially closed.

That was the best couscous in the world, best tajine too.
Lamb, almonds and plum sauce, piece of Moroccan bread with sesame seeds, full bodied red Bordeaux or light Gerouanne rosé .....MMMMmmmmMMM...

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Originally Posted by Orda Khan

I miss the gameplay
.......Orda

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Lol, you naughty you!

I miss dismounting units, in fact IMO all cav units should be ordered to dismount when needed. I miss choosing my own heir. I miss not being able to increase my pop or being able to control the rate of growth in a better way. When I first heard about the castles/ settlements arrangement I thought wow, now I can build castles in strategic location but errh, no. Would have been cool if you could build a castle where ever you wanted wouldn´t it?!

I second the dismounting units.
I totally forgot about those, but I've been missing them since RTW already.
I mean what's so tough to make a feudal knight a dismounted feudal knight? You'd have less already! :)
Just the remounting might be tough heh

I agree with most of the comments so far...

MTW2 thrashes MTW to death in the looks dept....but on the battlefield gameplay wise...MTW is the better game..by some way. (at the moment)

I miss titles...for people..
Dismounting units..
Assassinating your own people
Regional troops/Variety
Diplomacy was better in MTW too..
Deeper gameplay and better tactics

In fact I rate MTW on gameplay alone as the best TW game to date...sure it looks a bit old hat now...but it really did play very well indeed.

Eye candy cannot cover up the weak points in MTW2...I hope the address some of the issues if not all of the above...

If CA had done the eye candy to MTW and kept the tasty elements I would have been happy....

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Originally Posted by PseRamesses

I miss choosing my own heir.

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I actually think that was a good idea. After all, in those days, it was always the eldest son who got the crown. Even if he was a scritzophenic, insane, backstabbing murderer. So it was actually histroically accurate.

I miss decisive battles. You would fight a battle for the territory, not for fighting them.

Battles were major and very important, unlike in Rome and M2.

The only things I really miss are titles and regional units. Other things like reveling secret traits and killing off family members were cool but not that important.
On the other hand from a campaign perspective MTW2 has taken two steps forwards (religion is a lot better, and a proper map (though RTW had that)). However it has taken one step back (titles and regional units.), MTW2 is a better game but if they had kept some things from MTW it would be amazing rather than just another good game to distract me for a couple of months at the start and then for a month or two next year when some good mods have come out.

I only miss titles.

There lots not to like about MTW. Most of it is gone from M2TW.

Dismounting troops.

Seriously, get of your damn horse and drink your milk.

I havent come across the uber-badass english assasin Guy of gisbourne yet. It was nice in MTW to have a lv5 assassin from the start!

I have very few complaints about M2:TW. The battles look stunning, i think the troop effectiveness is about where it should be. cavalry dominate the early game in my campaigns. I love the differences between castles and cities and i think they have gotten the general feel of most of the nations bang on.

Some of the things that are missing and i think would be fantastic are regional units, either able to be produced or availiable as mercenaries, Regional bonuses, to encourage you to take territories for the bonuses they will give your troops and agents. As has been already pointed out, taking territory is more just taking a piece of land rather than a valuable region that you can use.

I hated civil wars, they always happened at the worst possible time, and i think it would be great if they were brought back in some capacity, having armies turn rebel for no reason is no substitute, civil wars should be regional, and national bloodbaths.

As has already been said it would be nice to build castles anywhere you wanted, as opposed to settlements these would give no bonus to income, they could be upgraded, but would decay in the same way as forts, say give them 5 possible levels, and the decay 1 level/turn they are empty. europe is chok full of castles of all shapes and sizes.

Des[it all the things that it would be nice to have, the game is still fantastic fun, and still worth playing as is, any changes they introduce can only improve the game

Regards

I miss Quintus Scipii.
That guy one every battle I ever auto-resolved with him in command. He lived to be 67 then got stuck in the wrong province during a plauge outbreak.

I beleive I razed a good portion of the Middle East in revenge.

I miss dismounting knights so that all of my army could take part in sieges. They should add it back in for M2TW, it would make knights really versatile.

I miss arquebusiers for Byzantium.

I miss faction-specific bodyguards and uber 9-valor katatanks lead by former princes.

I miss the chessboard campaign map and the ability to travel all the way across the map by sea in one turn.

I miss how your ruler's authority gave bonuses or penalties to loyalty and public order.

I miss how you could really mess up your royal family with questionable marriage arrangements.

dismounting - great feature
regional troops (fingers crossed for modders)
any sort of campaign challenge as england
any sort of campaign challenge
any sort of challenge...

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Lamb, almonds and plum sauce, piece of Moroccan bread with sesame seeds, full bodied red Bordeaux or light Gerouanne rosé .....MMMMmmmmMMM...

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Never had it back then but I miss it now!

I hate the fancy map in mtw2 it takes too long to move anywhere. plus you have to wait an age while the animations nod at at each town. I find mtw2 tedious to play. They should have streamlined it as it is the only game I know that takes 11g of disk space and comes on 2 dvds.

Titles. I wish they'd found a way to put them in.

As for dismounting units, I miss that too, but I think they had a good reason for doing it. It makes game balance all but impossible.

Think of how many different types of mounted units there are in M2TW, and then think of what they'd all dismount to. You wouldn't ever really have to train dismounted units or build barracks/armories -- you'd just build whatever it took to get the knights and dismount them as you needed them. I can't think of a way around that problem.

Forgot about titles.

Titles were FUN.

Not a huge thing, not particularly abusable or unbalancing, just basic fun to play around with and added a little bit of self-determination and personal involvement to ones "realm".

It would be nice to once again be able to actually bestow a title on your favoured general rather than accepting the whim of random hidden rolls.

The more I think about it the more I miss them.

Don't shoot me but I never liked the region specific units... If I could only produce a unit from one specific territory I just never produced it. What the heck would be the point? I can only produce one per turn, and never reinforce them at the front? Useless.

Now if you wanted to say that taking a specific territory would allow you to produce a given troop anywhere, that would be fine.

Mostly I miss the variety in bodyguards... The uber Boyar bodyguard squads in particular...

I agree with the vast majority of the suggestions here, especially stuff like regional units, but above all I agree with Molinaargh:

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I miss decisive battles.

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This is my biggest problem with M2. Unlike Medieval, I can't play M2 for hours at a time because it just gets boring after a while to fight battle after battle and feel like you're making zero progress. In MTW, you could destroy a faction's entire military power in a single battle. You could conquer an area like Britain in 3 or 4 turns. Battles had a much more "there's a lot at stake here" feeling to them, which I don't get at all in M2, because the AI fields 100000 stacks of troops to my 2 or 3, and it's nigh-impossible to make any progress late game because you just can't wade through them all.

M2's greatest flaw in the campaign is that battles are so common they get old. In MTW, I specifically remember in my Turkish campaign going for 150 turns without a SINGLE battle. I conquered all of North After, Const, Britain, and Scandinavia with naval power and just sat all my armies on my front lines and camped out for a century and a half teching and econo-ing up. And still, it was fun.

That brings to mind another thing - the building system in MTW was much better. I think the unit requirement system was much better in MTW, where each unit required 2 or 3 buildings in order to be trained, and sometimes this even forced you to make strategic decisions. For example, to get Janissaries as the Turks, you had to build a military academy, which you can only have one of per faction, so you really had to choose wisely where you built it so you could get the Janissaries to the front quickly. Some provinces also gave valor bonuses to certain units, which was an ingenious addition. I don't like how M2 is just a simple "climb up the tech tree" sort of deal, where one building lets you get to the next tier. In MTW, yes there were tiers, but some buildings gave you units, while others granted valor, weapon, and armor upgrades and such. Sigh. I miss that training system.

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Originally Posted by Aquitaine

Think of how many different types of mounted units there are in M2TW, and then think of what they'd all dismount to. You wouldn't ever really have to train dismounted units or build barracks/armories -- you'd just build whatever it took to get the knights and dismount them as you needed them. I can't think of a way around that problem.

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Barracks would still be needed because:
Mounted units come in smaller batches than dismounted ones, therefore you'll have less dismounted mounted troops.
Mounted units cost a lot more to train and to upkeep.
You can't re-mount in battle.

I had forgotten how much I loved MTW.

*scampers off to install on my new PC*