Phalanx troubles

Ok, well in my macedonian campaign (Megas Alexandros ftw) i allways have phalanx units, usually quite a few, ANYWAYS, When facing ANY Enemy, they allways....... ALLWAYS send their units around my line, Its the most annoying thing in the world, it Doesnt matter if they have phalanx to counter it, or if they have more men, or what, but they ALLWAYS Go around! So i have to move my phalanx to face their men on the flanks, and then they Go around them AGAIN!!!!!!! its the most annoying thing ive ever seen in my life, and i would understand if it was maybe 4 units, thats why i have mobile combat units on the flanks to counter them, but its their entire army, its prly the stupiest move a general, captain, or a monkey with no prior combat experience can make. I mean, Yeah... it makes sense but for christ sakes, they cant possibly hope to avoid the phalanx forever!

I assume that you are the defender right?

It would be nice if you could just park your army, but the AI does irritatingly stupid things like try to flank you with inferior numbers. What I found that works is to advance to meet them - it mostly puts a halt to their flanking tactics and they will meet you head-on in a cohesive battleline, which actually doesn't seem to disadvantage the AI who then tries to flank you only with proper units such as cavalry or skirmishers.

ok, next time im playing ill be sure to try it out, thanks =)

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Originally Posted by MastaSpoofa

Ok, well in my macedonian campaign (Megas Alexandros ftw) i allways have phalanx units, usually quite a few, ANYWAYS, When facing ANY Enemy, they allways....... ALLWAYS send their units around my line, Its the most annoying thing in the world, it Doesnt matter if they have phalanx to counter it, or if they have more men, or what, but they ALLWAYS Go around! So i have to move my phalanx to face their men on the flanks, and then they Go around them AGAIN!!!!!!! its the most annoying thing ive ever seen in my life, and i would understand if it was maybe 4 units, thats why i have mobile combat units on the flanks to counter them, but its their entire army, its prly the stupiest move a general, captain, or a monkey with no prior combat experience can make. I mean, Yeah... it makes sense but for christ sakes, they cant possibly hope to avoid the phalanx forever!

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Ahhh.... come on man....... don't tell ur angry at the AI because it is now a little smartER.....:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
(no pun, just a joke)

Listen in 1.5 the AI knows its cannot break through a phalanx and its best to outflank you with its entire army :yes: And no its not a dumb move, its actually preatty smart... Why engage ur superior phalanx-center, when I can overwelm ur flanks and completely envolope your army? :yes:

So, you have to ADAPT & OVERCOME. :2thumbsup:

I did in RTW, in my Greek campain, when my only good troops are Armored Hoplites and Spartan hoplites, no good flankers, no good cavarly, and mercenaries weak too. Playing VH/H against a Julii with Urban/Pretorian Cohort and Heavy Onagers. (yes the AI used Heavy Onagers to disrupt my phalanx :dizzy2:).

And I STILL won (after loosing several battles). So u can do it too, no excuses :smash:

Also the AI knows that it is fruitless to PUSH it forces through a phalanx so you will its soldiers infront but not making contact with the pikes/spears, and the soldiers start EVELOPING, the phalanx. (Thats why banner guys on a phalanx are a bad idea, they will get killed 1st and enemy soldiers will start pouring in through that whole, specially good enemy infantry).

On and one more thing.... In 1.5 the AI "learns" a little, so expect it to Adapt & Overcome too (only at a slower pace than u.....right?:smash: :laugh4: no pun)

lol no, dont get me wrong, i control all of the balkan penensula, conquored all of getai territory and am now pushing into italy (Because rome is starting to get a bit Too powerful =) But i just found it annoying that they would do rediculas maneuvers, any human player facing a phalanx would send some of his heavier armored troops to take on the phalanx and send some of his other troops to flank, not send the ENTIRE ARMY to flank at the EXACT SAME TIME!

This is a formation I used back in RTW and XGM days, but didn't have much of a need for in in EB .74


___HHHHHH___
______AA________
___HI__G__IH____
CC_II______II__CC

H=Hoplite, I=Infantry, A=Archer or Scermisher, C=Cavalry, G=General

The Italic and bold H are hoplites at and angle, like this / or \.

U can use a variation of it. The idea is to make ur army DEEP too, not just LONG. Keep troops on the sides, so if the AI tries to outflank u can stop the flanking manuver, and use ur cavarly to crush it.

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Originally Posted by MastaSpoofa

lol no, dont get me wrong, i control all of the balkan penensula, conquored all of getai territory and am now pushing into italy (Because rome is starting to get a bit Too powerful =) But i just found it annoying that they would do rediculas maneuvers, any human player facing a phalanx would send some of his heavier armored troops to take on the phalanx and send some of his other troops to flank, not send the ENTIRE ARMY to flank at the EXACT SAME TIME!

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Actually a smart human player would send a thinly spread hoplite/phalangite phalanx to TIED DOWN ur center, while the rest of his/her army overwelms ur flanks.... yes, learned it from the AI (nothing wrong with it), and improved it just a bit. :book:

In a defensive battle, I like to make what I call a semi-wedge.

A straight phalanx of about 5-7 pezhetairoir in the middle, and at the front. They're grouped together.

Thureophoroi (or similar troops), classical hoplites and cheap levies like Illyrian spearmen or Celtic auxilaries at the flanks, sloping backwards (their fronts still facing forward, though)
Slingers are put left and right, quite far away.

S&P_____________________________________________S&P

____________^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^_____________
__________H__________________________H___________
CC_______T____________________________T_______CC_
________A______________________________A_________


S = Slingers
P = Peltasts
^ = phalanx spearmen
H = classical hoplites
T = Thureophoroi
A = auxiliaries (Illyrian spearmen, cheap Celtic infantry, etc)
C = Cavalry

When the enemy approaches, I order the phalanx to start moving forward. This gives the enemy less time and opportunity to send the bulk of its troops around it. The more I manage to pin on my phalanx spears, the better.
The non-phalanx infantry at the flanks are moved forwards, to keep roughly their same position in relation to the phalanx.
Enemy troops that do get around the phalanx will be harried by slingers and peltasts, before they're intercepted by my non-phalanx warriors.
Sometimes the AI likes to send its cavalry to pursue my slingers and peltasts, wich can't outrun cavalry. My own cavalry is placed at both flanks to provide support when necessary, and of course when the time is right to "hammer" the troops pinned on the phalanx.

Have like 10 or 12 phalanx units in your army, and play with default formation (change only the flanks). Most of the time, there will be no flanking, and while they are busy trying to get trough a wall of spears, my lovable elephants charge from behind. Those units who brake off and attack my elephants are met by a charge of them and then another charge by my cavalry. It hurts so much. My last victories with Epiros have been something like 3000+ kills, 5 deaths.

I have abandoned the pincushion hoplites entirely in my KH game, save for limited circumstances when they might be useful. I find that the classical hoplites are far stronger when in "defensive" formation; they act like a true battering ram, even able to punch through the front of a unit of Iphriactean hoplites. Now that's impressive. :2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Reverend Gonzo

I have abandoned the pincushion hoplites entirely in my KH game, save for limited circumstances when they might be useful. I find that the classical hoplites are far stronger when in "defensive" formation; they act like a true battering ram, even able to punch through the front of a unit of Iphriactean hoplites. Now that's impressive. :2thumbsup:

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Yep they are stong as hell.... I had one unit of them able to wistand a front charge by a Carthaginian general with very few losses and not give one inch of ground to the cavalry. :2thumbsup:

The one thing that bugs is that they sometimes pull out thier short swords when fighiting cavalry, while others keep the spears. Sometimes I think it would be best to have them fight with spears only.....but thats just my opinion:sweatdrop:

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Originally Posted by NeoSpartan

Sometimes I think it would be best to have them fight with spears only.....but thats just my opinion:sweatdrop:

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Seconded. The classical hoplite fights would be less messy...

But I don`t think that the team would agree with that, since historically, hoplites did carry shortswords in case their spear broke...

And the team doesn`t usually follow ahistorical solutions... :shrug:

Hey,does anybody have this problem:when 2 phalanxes are fighting each other in phalanx formation some of the soldiers begin to move out of the formation in different directions performing fighting with "invisible" enemy:D?
It might be well to represent some cowards or crazy soldiers:) but then it takes too long to bring them back to the formation,because they spread out to the corners of the map!!!:)Without them the whole unit can't do things properly.
Btw,I've noticed it in vanilla 1.5 also.

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Originally Posted by Barigos

Hey,does anybody have this problem:when 2 phalanxes are fighting each other in phalanx formation some of the soldiers begin to move out of the formation in different directions performing fighting with "invisible" enemy:D?
It might be well to represent some cowards or crazy soldiers:) but then it takes too long to bring them back to the formation,because they spread out to the corners of the map!!!:)Without them the whole unit can't do things properly.
Btw,I've noticed it in vanilla 1.5 also.

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Yep I see the same issue.

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Originally Posted by Barigos

Hey,does anybody have this problem:when 2 phalanxes are fighting each other in phalanx formation some of the soldiers begin to move out of the formation in different directions performing fighting with "invisible" enemy:D?
It might be well to represent some cowards or crazy soldiers:) but then it takes too long to bring them back to the formation,because they spread out to the corners of the map!!!:)Without them the whole unit can't do things properly.
Btw,I've noticed it in vanilla 1.5 also.

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I noticed that too a couple of times. Hilarious.

That happens to me all the time even with non-phalanx units, I think it's just a bug.