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So, yeah, I guess I suck with horse archers. When playing as the Pahlava, how do you manage to get anywhere? Can any successful player recommend some beginning moves?
(I went on the offensive early, taking the two nearest Seleukid towns, and cash flow is in the positive... problem is, it took so long that I'm spending turn after turn just getting out of debt. No, cheating is no answer either.)
Thanks in advance!
Take your time (if you can). Remember that historically Parthian expansion really kicked off after 180BC or so. And don't fight against Baktrian medium cavalry, they have a special way of winning the day. :san_rolleyes:
you might want to wait with playing a long lasting Pahlava campaign:
1) EB is thinking about a more nomadic-government approach for the Pahlava
2) any fight against a Bactrian army with 'Hippeis' in it will cause a CTD.
Those two things made my quit my campaign, even though I was kicking Seleucid and Bactrian asses, so if you still want any advice, I will try to do so.
I posted this elsewhere, but since the fundamentals of this faction won't change much between v.80 and v.81, this strategy will still work after the Patch is released:
Here's the trick - Blitz the Seleukids immediately and don't let up until you have taken from them a ring of cities that will form the core of your new kingdom. Make peace with Saka and then assemble all the units you can muster on the border and then take Antiochiea Margiane. Exterminate the population (you can't afford to leave big garrisons behind) and then do the same thing to Asaak. Immediately go south and take Hekatompylos, Apameia, and finally Zadrakata. This is your core. And the key is that you can defend it with the only army you can afford - about half a stack - so long as you keep it positioned roughly between Hekatompylos and Apameia. It is brutally tough, but this move will stun the Seleukids and they won't be able to throw really big stacks at you for 10 or so years. That should be enough time to build up the economy and prepare for the next campaign...but you can figure that one out.
The military component of this strategy is to build up about a half stack of archers with a few family member generals. You should not have a SINGLE spearman in your whole army. Now normally in any battle against infantry and cavalry, an archer army is dead meat. But here the trick is to use your general unit cav to annihilate the enemy cav who won't be able to resist attacking your "defenseless" archers, and then to split up the enemy infantry and wipe them out one by one. Also, you want them to attack YOU as much as possible, preferably when you have the high ground. The key to success is the Parthian General Cataphracts. They are tanks. You will laugh at archers and all enemy cavalry (except other Cats).
Now it should be noted that this strategy is not truly historical. The Parthians *should* use less powerful Cats and a lot of horse archers. And they probably will in the next big release (not the patch, tho), as we are reworking a lot of the numbers. That said, the key fact is that arrows will beat spears if you play correctly, and that WAS true for the Parthians versus the Greeks.
A few other comments. You MUST maintain a peaceful allied relationship with Baktria, or all is lost. At this early stage you simply can't go to war against both the Seleukids and the Baktrians. Do not conquer the Seleukid city just south of Baktria or else you will thereby hem in the Baktrians, and the alliance won't last long. Likewise you want your diplomats out there establishing alliances with the Ptolemaioi, Pontos, Hayasdan, and any other Seleukid neighbor you can find. The more resources they must devote to wars in the West means the fewer troops will be sent your way.
This strategy will also drive you DEEP into debt for MANY turns. Any serious losses to your main battle army during this period cannot be made up. So you must be careful, and always attack the Seleukids when the odds are in your favor - either through numbers or terrain or both. The campaign is white knuckle all the way, but ENORMOUS fun!
Edit: Don't even *think* about "taking the rebels first". This is not Vanilla RTW. The Eleutheroi to the northwest are the Massagatae, as nasty a bunch as you'll encounter anywhere (they were in the running to become an EB faction). They are a horse archer "faction" just like you, and Parthia does not fare well against those kinds of units. Plus they serve as a nice buffer to keep the Sauromatae and Saka off your back.
I have followed your advice, Kull, and it works like a charm, I'm currently in 260 BC and I still am allied with baktria and I have a good core of cities, all the cities that are mentioned above, and the biggest stack the seleucids have sent to attack me so far is a half stack of good quality troops. I'm looking forward to actually building my cities and being able to afford cataphracts and armored camels and really start to put a hurt on Seleucia and eventually the Baktrians. One question, does the pahlav ever get to recruit elephants?
1. There are no RTW cataphract camels in this.
2. Yes, if you expand east towards baktria and india you can recruit indian elephant units there.