A Missile Cavalry Guide, v2.0

A Missile Cavalry Guide, v2.0

A collection of tips and tricks to using the units in the Missile Calvary Unit Guide

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CONTENTS

I. INTRODUCTION: THIS MONSTER I’VE CREATED

1. FUNDAMENTALS (This section and the next are almost verbatim copies of the “Hunters all their Lives” thread on core principles.)
2. FUNDAMENTALS, QUICKLY DEFINED (See above)
3. UNDERVALUING INFANTRY WILL GET YOU KILLED: AVOIDING THE “ONE-UNIT ARMY” TRAP
4. HOME ON THE RANGE: STRATEGY MAP CONSIDERATIONS
5. TO HAVE AND HAVE NOT: WHICH FACTIONS HAVE DECENT, NON-MERCENARY MISSILE CAVALRY
6. WHAT SHOULD MY STACK LOOK LIKE?
7. DEPLOYMENT AND GROUPING: A QUICK OVERVIEW OF TWO CONTENTIOUS SUBJECTS
8. KILL THEM, NOT YOU: BASIC MISSILE CAVALRY TACTICS AND HANDLING
9. AUTO-SKIRMISH, FIRE-AT-WILL AND AMMO
10. GOING COMMANDO: SKIRMISHING WITHOUT AUTO-SKIRMISH
11. SHOOTING TO KILL, LOVINGLY DETAILED, AND ELEPHANT HUNTING
12. THE MELEE OPTION, AND WHY MISSILE CAVALRY ARE THE BEST PURSUERS
13. CIRCLING, FRIENDLY FIRE AND STRAGGLING
14. NOW THAT YOU KNOW OUR SECRETS: HOW TO FIGHT MISSILE CAVALRY
15. SOME DISCUSSION OF GUNPOWDER CAVALRY, INCLUDING ELEPHANTS, AND A WORD ABOUT MOUNTED CROSSBOWMEN

I. INTRODUCTION: THIS MONSTER I’VE CREATED

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I don’t seriously expect anyone to read this thing through. The chapter numbers have asterisks beside them specifically because that makes a search for a topic easier.

This beast isn’t all my fault. A couple of people requested that I put missile cavalry tips in one place for “one stop shopping.” I didn’t know much, so I expected to finish quickly.

However, missile cavalry units in MTW2 are almost indescribably more practical to use than those in MTW1. These units are also available in an almost bewildering variety compared to Rome: Total War.

Missile cavalry is no longer a micro-managed niche unit that only devotees really enjoy.

The result is that old hands at the unit type were more enthused than I’ve seen in years, although there are some who have serious disappointments based on solid history. At the same time, the topic is more open to fresh ideas and new enthusiasts than at any point during the Total War series.

Therefore, the discussion on these particular tactics have been some of the best discussion I’ve seen on this forum in a very long time. I think I’ve accounted for my bias on that, especially since some of the very best points were critical. I’d like to see some more rigorous testing going on. Most of the research has been in totally unexplored territory like how to trigger guild headquarters. I’d like to give particular thanks to Whacker, who has labored on my favorite topic.

I was taken aback when I realized how much of this ongoing discussion was news to me. This guide is the result of my decision to include any new ideas that appeared sound and experience-based to me.

As always, this thread is fair game: Criticism and correction are not only welcome but hoped for. No one can argue that I haven’t given people plenty to criticize, given the sheer size of this post.

Even if you don’t like the unit type, you’ll have to fight them. This is a game with two Eastern hordes, after all, and the promise of a more aggressive AI for those hordes in the February patch. Even factions without the type have plenty of opportunities to hire them during Crusades and such. For an English player, for instance, knowing how to use this unit and how to fight it could determine whether your Crusade succeeds.

Know your enemy -- and if you figure out a good anti-missile cavalry tactic, please post it. Everybody’s good ideas are welcome. You’ll even find a section on those countermeasures.

This thread keeps evolving from Org postings going back to MTW1, and those benefited from earlier efforts by Shogun players. The number of people whose ideas flowed, are flowing and will flow into this thread will never be reliably known. Therefore, we cannot adequately thank them but want to express deep appreciation. I’d like to extend special thanks to Orda Khan, whose artwork is posted above, and to Sinan, whose beautiful screenshots and sig pics I’ve shamelessly ripped off while he’s on his self-imposed MTW2 moratorium. Their artwork was chosen primarily for beauty, but also as a homage to the insights they’ve freely given. Also, this guide was all Oleander Ardens idea. It was more work than I ever thought it would be, but thanks, OA.


1. FUNDAMENTALS
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1. Get to high ground.
2. Know the enemy’s weak spots. Exploit them.
3. Create cross fire.
4. You own the battlefield. The enemy's trespassing.
5. Attack morale at least as much as units.
6. Attack or neutralize the biggest threats first.
7. If enemies aren’t dying, get closer.

Sinan has a much simpler set of rules that, arguably, are better. They are certainly worth repeating:

1. Destroy the enemy's mobility.
2. Destroy the enemy's range.
3. Isolate, lure and destroy individual units.

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2. FUNDAMENTALS, QUICKLY DEFINED
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1. Get to high ground. That’s self-evident. If there’s a hill you can get to and fire from, get there first with the most men. If the enemy holds high ground, find the gentlest slope and go up it instead of riding directly at them. Missile cavalry are among the fastest units in the game. Use that.

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2. Know the enemy’s weak spots. Exploit them. These spots are, in priority order:
a. From the back.
b. On the enemy’s “weapon hand,” his right flank. This matters less with units that have no shield, like peasants, but most units have shields.
c. The other side, “shield side.”
d. In front, from the “weapon” or right end. If you are in the enemy’s “2 o’clock” position, you get at least some of the raking effect.
e. In front, “shield” end.
f. Dead ahead.

(See enfilade fire in the “Shooting to Kill” section below)

Note that the ability of missile cavalry to get to those spots is its greatest advantage over missile infantry.

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3. Create cross fire. Shields can only face one direction at a time. Even shieldless, unarmored units present a smaller target when facing you. This is particularly true of horses and camels. This level of detail is apparently present in the game. Give units more than one direction to face. You will find that horses and camels make particularly inviting targets from the side.

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4. You own the battlefield. The enemy's trespassing. Rush out and keep him in the middle and make him pay for any ground gained. Make him pay for any ground lost. Make the only part of the battlefield he controls the poor, low ground he's standing upon and make him pay rent in lives for that. Don’t get pinned. Battle map corners and sides are almost as big a threat as the enemy. Those borders are the anvil. The enemy is the hammer. Don’t get close to the anvil without a compelling reason, and keep a way of escape in mind. Also beware of getting one of your units surrounded and terrain obstacles like rivers or structures.
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5. Attack morale at least as much as units. Nothing helps win a battle like a dead enemy general. Javelin cavalry are the best general-killers available. Also, note that having your missile cavalry behind and flanking units create big morale penalties for your opposition. Use it. If your melee units can rout one unit, the rest may soon follow.

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6. Attack or neutralize the biggest threats first. A set of spear infantry that can't catch you and can be easily shot up later are not the biggest threat. Cavalry that might catch your units or enemy missile units that reach you are. Kill them as soon as you can, especially if you can goad them out and destroy them in detail with your melee cav and javelins. In Sinan's juicy expression: "An army without missile or cavalry against an all cavalry army is the best meat you can buy."

Foot archers are a threat, but they cannot fire on the move. Get them moving with treats of charges from melee cav or even your HA, if they have decent melee stats, then shoot them to bits.

"It is natural to target first fast missile cavalry, fast cavalry, and ranged units, but not all seem to do it," notes Oleander Ardens.

==============

7. If enemies aren’t dying, get closer. Self-explanatory.

========

While we’re on fundamentals, here’s a point that can’t be emphasized enough:

EXPERIENCE
A target unit’s experience level makes absolutely no difference to its defense against missile fire. A 10-star general’s bodyguard unit with three gold chevrons is just as easy a target to a bunch of incoming javelins as the bodyguard of a zero-star lunatic who just turned 16.

However, the effectiveness of your missile fire does improve with unit experience.

On another point, missile cavalry do fire in all directions (with the exception of Elephant Artillery.) There is some penalty for firing directly behind, at least, but that’s not been fully studied and quantified as far as I know.

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3. UNDERVALUING INFANTRY WILL GET YOU KILLED: AVOIDING THE “ONE-UNIT ARMY” TRAP

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We horse archer nuts are routinely — and not without cause — accused of overemphasizing our favorite unit type.

As Sinan warned us all in one thread, the real fight is mental. You either want to cut off your enemy’s options or blind him to those options and dictate the fight. In effect, you want to order both side’s units around. The player who can do that will win, whether he’s commanding infantry, cavalry or a combination.

My rationale for this thread's emphasis boils down to this: Missile cavalry tactics simply don't come naturally to as many people as melee tactics. I don't know why. Once the mystery is removed from using missile cavalry, using them in combos — at least with other cavalry — seems to flow.

Some thoughts on melee/missile cavalry tactics will come in the deployment section of this thread. However, let me repeat that this is a rich field in which a lot of people have a lot of experience, but that’s still largely untouched in forum discussion.

The coordination of infantry and missile cavalry is even more neglected. Too easily, people become “cavalry” or “infantry” players. The fact is that a good unit of armored infantry attacking a unit that had its foot-archer support stripped away by an aggressive, effective use of cavalry archers in melee mode, then firing into the opposing melee unit’s back — that attacking infantry is the closest thing to an unstoppable unit in this game.

Another point: Infantry is better armored in MTW2 than it was in RTW. Horse archers who encircled a unit in RTW quickly wiped it out, because the shield was most of the armor for most infantry. That may still be true in the early rounds of MTW2 and against factions that can't afford well-armored infantry, but well-equipped infantry is much harder to kill.

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4. HOME ON THE RANGE: STRATEGY MAP CONSIDERATIONS

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Cavalry moves farther on the strategy map than infantry. It’s a simple fact with obvious benefits — and some harder-to-see pitfalls.

Cavalry armies can attack more stacks in one turn. Since they start every battle “fully loaded” with missile ammo, they can fight multiple battles. They can advance deep into enemy territory and besiege a place with mercenary infantry or with spies. After all, if the spies don’t open a gate on the first turn of a siege, try again then next turn.

The biggest advantage, though, is the greater ability to put two or more stacks in the same place at less risk. You can have a couple of stacks of cavalry widely dispersed on one turn. The enemy with some infantry can’t get to any of them. Next turn, you converge and attack with everything you’ve got.

It is more difficult to destroy a cavalry-only army because they have more movement points. They can retreat farther, get to mountainous areas or river crossings that give them good terrain advantages, and can get out of an area as fast as they got in.

The vital pre-requisite for using such an army effectively is information. Spies in enemy territory and watchtowers in friendly territory are vital. Also, don’t ignore the most important function of cavalry in the history – reconnaissance.

Even for a faction with weak cavalry, a small cavalry force can drive the AI to distraction. For instance, putting a unit in a high-value trade harbor blockades the port. Stacks of infantry are not free to move about if you can bushwhack them.

Remember the point about experience improving missile performance but not target defense? Bandit killing is a rich source of experience for missile cavalry. Missile cavalry can engage scattered bands of rebels rather effectively. Experienced units can then join the main army.

Now, for some balance — all-cavalry armies are expensive to build and can eat up your treasury to maintain. They don’t hold bottlenecks like river crossings as well. A well-garrisoned town may not be able to drive an all-cavalry army off, but it can usually hold out until relief comes. If spies open the gates, archers on the walls and armored infantry on the ground can cause frightful losses.

Consider putting balanced forces in your cities or important regions and having all-cavalry field forces to supplement these, especially if you are fighting a multi-front war. The all-cavalry force can help win on one front, then quickly move to another.

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5. TO HAVE AND HAVE NOT: WHICH FACTIONS HAVE DECENT, NON-MERCENARY MISSILE CAVALRY?

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For detailed descriptions of the units within each faction, check this LINK TO THE MISSILE CAVALRY UNIT GUIDE

England, Scotland and the Aztecs have no non-mercenary missile cavalry.

Denmark, Milan, the Papal States, Sicily and Venice have none except the mounted crossbowman, which arrives in the High Era.

France has an excellent mounted longbowman, which doesn’t arrive until the High Era. The Holy Roman Empire, Portugal and Spain get the Mounted Crossbowman too, but have other options.

The Holy Roman Empire has the very impressive Reiter, which doesn’t arrive until the Late Era. Moors get the very powerful, long-ranged camel gunner late in the game and some units earlier than that. Portugal and Spain have the very good Jinete javelin cavalry unit from the onset.

The Byzantine Empire, Egypt, Hungary, Mongols, Poland, Russians, Turks and Timurids are top-notch missile cavalry factions.

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6. WHAT SHOULD MY STACK LOOK LIKE?
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There is no such thing as a perfect army in single-player, where battles range from huge affairs with multi-stack reinforcements to bandit killings. Multiplayer battles against humans also defy generalizations. Going up against a guy who loves elephants? Javelin cavalry are great, for reasons given below. Got another one who loves longbows? Something fast and hard to hit is in order, so it can close the range and circle.

When I go looking for trouble as Egyptians in single-player, I build stacks around a core that looks something like this: Four to six Mameluk archers; at least two javelin-armed Desert Cavalry; four good-quality melee cavalry, such as melee Mameluks, Arab cavalry or mercenary Armenian Cavalry, and a general.

Options for filling out the balance include: Light cavalry archers such as mercenary Turkomans until I can afford something better; More melee cavalry if I’m up against an Eastern horde; More javelin cavalry if I’m up against armored infantry; or infantry if I’m headed to take a city or want to defend a river crossing.

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7. DEPLOYMENT AND GROUPING: A QUICK OVERVIEW OF TWO CONTENTIOUS SUBJECTS

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This section presumes that you’re deploying for a field battle, not a siege defense. It also deals with deploying the cavalry. This is not a comprehensive combined-arms guide.

HORSE ARCHERS: CAVALRY WITH BOWS

The simplest way to use a cavalry unit with bows is to put it into big squares in loose formation. This allows that unit to move easily while firing in any direction, and also reduces their vulnerability to missile fire.

Somebody better at computers than me can explain how to change a unit's default deployment depth. The deployment method I usually follow before a battle for horse archers is to group them all, put them in loose formation, put them in single line, then stretch them into a long, thin single line two ranks deep. Then I push the "-" key until the individual units are in squares. For a 40-man unit, notice that a “square” is four ranks deep and 10 files wide, since horses are long critters.

Notice the large gaps between units. This is no problem. Anything that marches through those gaps will be shot to mincemeat by crossfire. The gaps also help reduce friendly fire losses and are also handy avenues for your own counter-charging melee units. As a rule, skirmish and “fire at will” should be left on for horse archers. (Note: things are different for javelins. See below.) Also, I generally deploy on the highest ground available. If there’s obvious, dominant high ground outside my deployment area, I’ll get as close as possible and rush there when the battle opens.

I haven’t heard much dissent from using squares for horse archers, although it’s questioned from time to time. Some people whose opinion I respect don’t think loose formation is necessary, but my experience favors “hanging loose.” Also, other very good players put their cavalry on the flanks of conventional armies. Some even put all on them on the left end of their line so they will automatically be firing into the vulnerable “shield less” side of their opponents. I prefer the long line of separated squares so I can wrap it around the enemy and quickly develop crossfire.

JAV-CAV

Opinions on deployment of javelin cavalry vary much more. I like a front line of horse archers supported by javelins further back and grouped in the center. Javelin cavalry are the best general-unit assassins ever invented. The only thing better than a javelin cavalry unit for this work is a bunch of those units. Massing them in the center means I can send those fast units wherever needed. Other, experienced “Jinete Jockeys” divide them between flanks so they can quickly get around the ends and start skewering enemies in the back.

However you deploy, I recommend turning fire-at-will OFF during deployment. Otherwise, your jav-cav will throw all their pointy sticks at some peasant unit passing by. The fire on the move and only have eight shots. You could find yourself out of javelins when you reach the hard-armored, high-value target you were hoping for.

There’s also a difference of opinion on whether javelin cavalry should be put into squares. Many of these units make excellent dual-purpose cavalry with a very respectable melee capacity. Polish Nobles are the extreme example of this, but even Jinetes are respectable. Squares obviously are not as good for melee. Most of my experience is with Desert Cavalry, which are relatively weak in melee, so I use squares.

CAVALRY WITH GUNS

Gunpowder cavalry -- Reiters and Camel Gunners -- are extremely powerful units whose devotees daily plow new ground on tactics. That’s my polite way of admitting that I don’t have a clue how most of these units should be deployed, but other people do. The work on gunpowder tactics gets a special section below. It will include elephants, which are very effective missile cavalry that also happen to be a monstrous melee unit.

MELEE CAV

Deployment of the melee cavalry, IMO, depends on what type of missile cavalry you have. I like to deploy some melee cavalry behind each “wing” of horse archers if my archers are weak melee types like Turkomans. Even if you have better HA, this practice has advantages. If powerful enemy knights charge one wing, the melee cavalry from the other side can usually charge its rear.

If my horse archers are good “double duty” types with decent melee, like Mameluk Archers, I like to put my melee cavalry in the center on the assumption that my good HA can pin the unit until a very powerful counter-charge arrives.

If I have a mix of good “double duty” HA and weak HA, I put the stronger HA on the wings of the front line with the weaker units in the center and a mass of melee cavalry in the center behind them for quick support.

“Router-chaser” light cavalry stay close to my general as a sort of light bodyguard and opportunist’s reserve.

GROUPING

Deployment is a wonderland of calm consensus compared to the debates on grouping.

Very roughly, people fall into two categories: Those who group by type and those who group by position — center, left, right, reserve, etc.

Frankly, my center, left, right and reserve keep getting hopelessly mixed. I enjoy what looks like chaos to most folks.

I like to keep groupings simple and according to type, but strongly advise against lumping all horse archers together. Those units tend to divide naturally into two groups that I call “fight” and “flight” types. For now, suffice it to say that some HA do quite well in melee and, therefore, have a good melee option. Others will melt if even if hit by routers. Grouping these deer and hounds makes it needlessly difficult to seize lucky, fleeting melee opportunities.

Very generally, I group units like this: 1. “Fight” horse archers. 2. “Flight” horse archers. 3. Javelins 4. Strong melee cav 5. Lighter “chaser” and flanking cavalry. 6. The general and some reserve, lighter cavalry or partial units.

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8. KILL THEM, NOT YOU: BASIC MISSILE CAVALRY TACTICS AND HANDLING

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Using missile cavalry well requires an opportunistic outlook. Never, never, NEVER forget that formulas have only two very limited purposes. First, new missile cavalry players need someplace to start. Second, experienced players sometimes break old habits when shown alternatives, encouraging them to think up new ones. Beyond that, never forget that a player who always goes “by the book” becomes as predictable as the AI, even if he uses different “books” for different battles.

Just as important, never forget that the enemy’s morale is the real target. This morale principle is important in multiplayer too, where the best opponent cannot order around units on the verge of routing, especially if you get him flustered too.

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The four basic styles of missile cavalry play that I know of are: bagging, grinding, flanking and blitzing.

BAGGING consists of surrounding the whole enemy army with missile cavalry and using your melee and some javelin units to stop break-out attempts. For instance, if you have six horse archers, you send the ones on each end of your line around the sides and to the rear of the enemy, have the next two take up positions on each flank of the enemy army and leave a couple in the front. You now have the enemy surrounded by widely spaced “squares” with crossfire. Your object is to round up the enemy, break any scattered or vulnerable parts with melee cavalry charges and keep drawing the bag tighter. You used to be able to scatter an army badly and charge units in detail in singleplayer, but that’s not as easy as it was in Rome: Total War.

GRINDING is simpler and effective though not as totally destructive. You cup your missile cavalry around one end of the line, something like this: C--. The converging fire from your units is very destructive and you chew your way down the line. Your melee and other units basically wait somewhere far enough away to watch and close enough to prevent your enemy from turning his line. Your “cup” of missile cavalry are walked around and closer to the ever-diminishing line until most of your firing units are behind or beside the target at close range. Almost every shot will hit.

FLANKING is to use missile cavalry in a traditional cavalry role -- to charge around the ends of the enemy line and pin him against your main line while collapsing his flanks. Done right, it leads to a crushing of the whole enemy army very quickly.

The advantages of missile cavalry for this type of work are that they can keep up some fire on the enemy while riding around instead of having that be “dead time” while they get in position, they have less chance of getting intercepted or stuck in melee, and can quickly change targets with their missile fire. Good dual-purpose missile cavalry also have the option of charging, too. Although there is some resemblance between this and “bagging,” bagging is not as swiftly destructive and flanking yields fewer surviving routers to chase around.

BLITZING is missile cavalry warfare in its most extreme form. It requires use of the “waypoint” control method found in the “Going Commando” section below.

The best way I can describe this style is to compare it to aerial combat. Most pilots can’t resist twisting and turning into a dogfight. They want to stay with their target until it’s dead and didn’t kill it on the first pass. They get into the “furball” of a fight where they are in danger too, because they can’t keep up with all the threats while dogfighting themselves.

Other pilots, however, pick a good target, fly in, give their victim a well-aimed burst and fly out. They glance back from the outside and -- the sooner the better -- they find another good target and repeat.

“Blitzing” is like that, only you have eight to 10 units or small groups of missile cavalry, and melee groups to control.*

Only missile cavalry can do this sort of thing in MTW2. Melee units don’t make firing passes. Unless the enemy routs on contact, there’s a fight. Foot missile troops aren’t fast enough and don’t fire on the move.

Even in single-player, you’re setting up your next attack before the last one is finished. Multiplayers say that this technique can drive “by the book” opponents to distraction. Ideally played, your opponent never knows what’s coming and is appropriately apprehensive. They focus on what you’re going to do to them and lose sight of what they might do to you -- which means they’re beaten already.

*(Alternatively, it is possible to use the bag technique, for instance, and “blitz” with individual units as the opportunity arises.)

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9. AUTO-SKIRMISH, FIRE-AT-WILL AND AMMO

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The secret to long life and health as a horse archer is to recognize when you're getting cornered and know how to either avoid it or get out of it. The borders of the battlefield map are your worst enemy. Stay away from them unless there’s a good reason to get close, like a nice height advantage with a clear escape route. Sometimes, you'll have to turn skirmish mode off to do that. If you don't, sometimes you'll click on the ground to get away but the HA will "skirmish" away from an approaching enemy unit, canceling your order.

Auto-skirmishing is vastly better than it was in MTW1, but that doesn’t mean you can just sit back and let it take over. It’s not auto-pilot. It’s cruise control. As just mentioned, sometimes you have to turn auto-skirmish off just to get where you want to go. Also, it is possible for an HA unit to get caught in the open if two different units are approaching it from different directions so that it can't skirmish away from both.

Another annoying fact is that a whole unit of missile troops — foot or horse — will stop firing if a few of its members blunder into melee. The whole unit goes into melee mode. You have to click a spot and run away or, in extreme cases, temporarily hit “withdraw” to get them away and firing again.

Routing units don’t trigger skirmish. Therefore, routers will run through a unit that is in its way and the blocking unit will not, repeat, not skirmish away. That crazed mob of routers will kill people who block their escape. Beware large clumps of panicked troops unless you are chasing and overtaking them.

Quillan pointed out one very nice improvement since RTW: You don’t have to turn skirmish off to charge any more. Just click alt-attack. In RTW, you had to turn skirmish off before they’d close with the enemy. As an added bonus, skirmish turns itself back on if you pull the unit out.

I used to leave the "run" button pushed once the enemy's in range. If you're going to skirmish away, skirmish quickly. However, that makes the problem of "straggling" worse. Running also lowers accuracy. Missile cavalry generally have very good stamina and also stop once they've skirmished away far enough, so tiring your units out is not generally a problem. It can happen, but fatigue is manageable with a little light checking.

Sometimes, units skirmish too far. A little micromanagement can pay big dividends by halting the skirmishing or walking the unit back to a closer range. One good habit is to keep an eye on your unit display. If you see the double-arrows indicating a unit is running, select it and take a look. If it's run far enough, click "toggle walk/run" (R) and slow those horsies down. Alternatively, you can click on the ground to make the unit turn — and walk — in the direction of the enemy's vulnerable side.

I'm a big fan of speed, but in the right direction. HA need to run where you want them Once they get there, they need to not run away unless you send them somewhere else.

Fire-at-will is a simpler affair. Although I’m inviting dispute by saying this, fire-at-will works rather well. The AI does a good job of picking up targets with a high hit percentage. This drives many people to vexation when they watch a bunch of their precious-few javelins flying into a peasant unit right beside the enemy general, but they shouldn’t blame the AI for playing the odds.

To get any missile unit to stop shooting, you must turn fire-at-will OFF, then hit HALT. Even then, it will take a few seconds.

To get a unit to fire at a target of your choosing, you have to have fire-at-will off, then target the unit you want. I don't believe that clicking "halt" then giving an attack order is necessary, but it doesn't hurt.

If you target a specific unit that is out of range and leave “skirmish” on, it is likely that your unit will keep skirmishing away from other enemy units and NEVER fire at the intended target. If you turn skirmish off, however, your unit could get engaged in melee, even slightly, and stay stuck there. Your unit will not, repeat, not break away and close with your intended target unless you give it a movement command. This is a major issue with javelin cavalry with their relatively short range. This is another reason you want to put enemy units in a “bag,” so you can charge in from any direction.

Ammo for horse archers isn’t as much of a concern as for javelins, but why waste shots? Even if horse archers carried 100 shots, why ping them against shields while riding around the front and flank? If the enemy’s not close when the battle starts, consider turning fire at will off until at least one unit in a group is in good position.

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10. GOING COMMANDO: SKIRMISHING WITHOUT AUTO-SKIRMISH

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Some veterans and other players who just have the skills don’t use auto-skirmish at all, using a waypoint method, excellent situational awareness and good, trained reflexes.

I do not recommend trying to learn the following technique "on the job." Go to custom battles and practice and, when you think you're ready, practice some more until it becomes a reflex. I'd also advise everybody to try and learn this, because it can be devestating when you pull it off. I routed a unit of peasants in two passes the first night I tried this and the first time I got lucky and got it right. Even if you never want to use this for every missile cav unit in your army, you should acquire the ability to use it with any give unit at any given time. Seizing opportunity is what maneuver is all about. Also, use close formation and not loose when you do this. It's makes a more compact, harder-to-intercept formation. There is no downside, since your troops are running and therefore have that protection against missile fire.

For those brave souls who want to try this, here’s Sinan’s little set of instructions:

Quote:

---

In order to circle around the enemy:
1. Turn OFF fire at will.
2. Waypoint a path around the enemy as close as you can get to the enemy.
3. RUN.
4. Enable fire at will when very close (to maximize accuracy) OR when far (to maximize early under fire morale penalty and early enemy formation disruption)

If you want to make this even more complex and awesome to watch:
1. Turn OFF fire at will.
2. Waypoint a 2 waypoint path around the enemy as close as you can get to the enemy.
3. RUN.
4. At waypoint 1 (as close as possible), missile attack the enemy and click F (special ability).
5. Waypoint another 2 point path.
6. At waypoint 1, missile attack the enemy and click F.
7. Repeat as a above, indefinitely.

The 2nd waypoint is just in case you get intercepted at waypoint 1. Then you already have a waypoint ready in case you don't want to (circle) you can just carry on running.

The above is hard to do but it's incredibly beautiful to watch the archers shooting while constantly moving. Pay attention though because to pull this off you have to ALWAYS have skirmish off, and you have to be very alert. There's a lot of micromanagement involved. IMO skirmish doesn’t really work well, I mean even with experience 9 it seems some missile cavalry just can't see a charge coming even when it's staring them in the face on the tip of 40 large colorful tournament lances. I find I get better results by clicking myself, especially in extremely close quarters.

Be careful to watch your casualties against missile units, you have to make sure you are killing more than they are. I should say that I use (circle occasionally, but mostly I run across from side to side, from one flank to the other circling around the enemy army. If the opportunity presents itself I charge in.

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HOW TO SET WAYPOINTS: I couldn't find this in either the manuel or in the key-mapping screen of the game. So here goes:

Hold down "Shift" when right-clicking for movement. You can set as many waypoints as you want, anywhere on the battle map that you want. The unit will go to them in the order you set them. In fact, you can set a waypoint and, while still holding "shift", order a melee or missile attack. Your unit will go to the waypoint first, then attack from that direction.

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11. SHOOTING TO KILL, LOVINGLY DETAILED, AND ELEPHANT HUNTING

https://i101.photobucket.com/albums/...W%20HA/ha7.jpg

ENFILADE
Enfilade fire's become one of those ingrained things everybody should know, but not everybody does. This is a very important concept, especially if you are interested in missile cavalry. One of the key advantages of missile cavalry is that they achieve enfilade much more easily than foot units. So here goes:

"Enfilade" a fancy name for shooting down the widest or longest part of the enemy formation. It's like "Crossing the T" for those of you familiar with naval combat with guns.

If you are directly in front of a unit of infantry and it's charging at you, you might think you have a nice, broad target. If you watch your battle closely however, you will clearly see most of your arrows flying right over the enemy's heads, especially if the target unit is running and even if the range is short. You will also notice many arrows sticking up in the ground in front, especially if your unit's accuracy is hurt by having to skirmish away.

By far, most misses — especially on stationary targets — are NOT, repeat, NOT wide to the right or left. They are overshoots and undershoots.

If you are "raking" the target down the wide side, your overshoots hit more men farther from the middle and the undershoots hit men closer too you. This is especially true if you have a height advantage. "Undershoots" still have a chance of hitting and "overshoots" can still land on an enemy instead of plowing into the hillside.

If a spear unit is four ranks deep and has 75 men, for instance, it's about 19 men wide. Get on the flank and shoot down the side of the unit. (You may need another unit to "pin" the target and keep it facing the same direction.)

It is perfectly possible for an archer to miss its target unit completely but hit some other nearby unit. Obviously, if you are firing down the enemy's line you stand a much better chance of killing something, either in the unit you are firing at or in the next unit in line.

Many horse archers, particularly javelin troops, have a short range and a firing arc like a rainbow. The arrow or javelin lands on or near the target unless range is close. One reason close-range fire is deadly is because the trajectory is closer to being flat, resulting in more enfilade.

Camel gunners have long range and relatively flat trajectories, as far as I can tell. This can create enfilade fire at its finest. Reiters and mounted crossbowmen are also "straight shooters" compared to HA.

Note that shooting from behind a unit attacks his most vulnerable spot and causes rather enormous morale penalties on the target unit. So don't pass up opportunities to shoot units in the back, despite the lower accuracy.

THE SOFT SPOT

Whenever possible, get behind or at least to the open, shieldless "weapon side" of an enemy unit. Arrow fire is MUCH more effective from an unprotected side. Getting a unit in a crossfire of two or more directions is particularly deadly. Even if you only have only one HA unit, keep riding around a target unit, which will have to turn to face you. This compromises their shield bonus while turning, while you keep maneuvering to their right side. You fire on the move, so this is more effective than just pouring direct fire into their shields (assuming they have shields. Against peasants and such, the finer points don't matter so much.)

SPECIAL TACTICS FOR JAVELINS

I prefer to wait until a high-value unit is pinned in melee, then throw javelins. There are too few javelins to waste on a fast-moving target. Jav-cav working in close cooperation with good melee cavalry is particularly deadly and versatile. All the height and flank advantages of regular missile combat apply. Also, javelins are not penalized for bad weather, which is a more important consideration than you might think. If it’s raining, your javelin troops represent a much higher portion of your combat strength than they did before.

Although it seems like a waste to throw javelins at targets that aren't armored, there are many exceptions. Throwing javelins to kill 10 or 12 infantrymen who are trying to kill your general is obviously a better investment than throwing an equal number and missing the few remaining members of a routed knight unit. As a rule, I turn “fire at will” on once my high-value target is devastated or dead. Jav-cav can effectively engage spear units from range, even cheap ones. So save the javelins for high value units, but don't get tunnel vision about it.

ELEPHANT HUNTING

There simply is no better unit for killing elephants, in my humble opinion, than javelin cavalry. Jannissary Infantry and artillery fans might disagree. My reply is that Javelin Cavalry are: Available from the beginning of the game and have minimal building requirements for factions who are blessed with them; Can fire on the move and are threrefore harder targets who are shooting all the time; Are faster than elephants; Move farther per turn on the strategy map and, to be blunt, are either well protected (like Boyar Sons) or aren't all that expensive (Like Desert Cavalry).

Remember the point earlier about horses and camels being more vulnerable from the side? The same with elephants, only much moreso. Don't wait for the elephants to get pinned in melee. Hunt them down now. You might have to wait for other troops to be whittled down, but keep your eye out for your first chance. Also, this is one clear case where circling can really help your jav-cav survive the elephants' counterfire. Elephants are too big to miss, even while circling.

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12. THE MELEE OPTION, AND WHY MISSILE CAVALRY ARE THE BEST PURSUERS
https://i101.photobucket.com/albums/...eral/sig16.jpg

Missile Cavalry tend to fall into two types: Fight or flight. Fast and frail units tend to be very, very hard to catch but die quickly in melee. Dual-purpose can hit and run or hit and stay. A Mameluk Archer is a better melee unit than Arab Cavalry, for instance. Reiters are knights that can shoot.

“Know your enemy, know yourself, and in a thousand battles you will never be in peril,” as Sun Tzu said. Knowing whether your missile cavalry unit can resort to melee is the kind of basic knowledge any good player has check out before the battle begins. All the information is available in the Missile Unit Guide.

To melee attack, hold down the “alt” button and click attack — or just run out of ammo and click attack.

You should form up into a close-order line first, if possible. Sometimes, it’s not, or not desirable. It’s better to trap an enemy general with a loose square of Sipahis than let him get away while you’re forming up.

Like everything else, these rules come with too many exceptions. For instance, there’s no good reason why many “flight” missile cavalry can’t chase routers or stop a general who’s trying to get away. Even if there are losses, those loses are sometimes worth it.

PURSUIT

HA make outstanding chasers for routed units, in part because they are less prone to the bizarre behavior of other router chasers. Whole threads have been devoted to the wild gyrations pursuing units go into. The root cause of this floorshow is that the whole unit will engage one straggling router while the rest of them get away.

Obviously, if you have a pursuing unit with some range and ammo it will concentrate fire and kill more of those stragglers from a distance. This is true even if you hit alt-attack to melee with the fleeing unit. Your horse archers will fire all they time they are in range and closing if you leave fire-at-will on. Chances are good that “the last man out” will die from arrows before the units even arrive to circle around him in melee. I’ve even kept a very experienced Turkoman mercenary unit in reserve in some battles just to give myself a fast router-chaser with plenty of ammo.

Note, however, that if you give a fire command on a fleeing unit, your horse archers will get in range, then stop and keep firing. Your “pursuers” won’t fire again until the fleeing unit gets out of range. This means most of the routers will probably get away. It is much better to hit alt-attack and run, especially if the fleeing unit is cavalry.

The key to chasing routers is loose formation. This prevents the chasers from stopping and reforming. Since you are chasing with a ranged unit, they can concentrate fire without being physically near each other.

HA are generally quite fast, and some are the fastest units in the game. If the routers are good melee units, though, expect to take some loses if you catch them with low-melee HA. The victims will resist capture and fight back.

Unfortunately, pursuing units turn their back to other units that are still firing on the routers. If you are not careful, this will lead to a painful number of friendly fire casualties. See the friendly fire section on how to avoid that.

One good trick is to hit alt-attack, leave fire-at-will on, but hit “halt” before the melee starts. Now you can put some good close-range fire right into the fleeing unit’s back and either walk or run behind them. Running right through them is an option too, but it doesn’t seem to work as well as it did in MTW1. Another trick is to have your chasers run or walk beside the target. This allows other units to keep firing.

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13. CIRCLING, FRIENDLY FIRE AND STRAGGLING

https://i101.photobucket.com/albums/...dK/arabia5.jpg

CIRCLING
The special ability to circle's clearest function is to reduce your cavalry's vulnerability to archers. An HA unit will defeat a foot archer unit of equal quality when the horses are circling, generally speaking. The maneuver tires your horses and reduces accuracy, though. If the enemy is short on missile troops, deadlier fire from units that aren't circling will result in less wasted ammo and more kills, at the cost of a few more casualties. Better to kill all the enemy spears and lose a couple of more HA than lose a lot more men in melee to units that survived your circling HA.

Some players report that circling units seem irresistible to AI melee units. Therefore, circlers make excellent bait.

Getting units to circle has been a problem. Sometimes, the AI decides it's better off standing still. If you strongly disagree — for instance, if your general is an HA unit that's under fire — then:
1. Turn OFF skirmish and fire at will.
2. Approach the target.
3. Hit “special ability” (F) and click the target.

Circling and auto-skirmish don’t work well together, but they do work. It just takes longer to stop circling and then skirmish away, as opposed to just skirmishing away. Also, it at least appears that units will stop circling as the enemy approaches if skirmish is left on. All this needs some more verification testing, however.

STRAGGLING
One annoyance is that units straggle a lot more in MTW2 than they ever did in other TW games. I've had one HA lag behind and get killed by a slow-moving pike unit while another from the same unit was out of range.

Select the sloppy formation and quickly tap the "c" key twice. It orders the unit to close formation and then quickly orders it to disperse again. They'll move into place. If that doesn't work, hit "c" and wait for those stragglers to start moving. Then you can hit "c" again.

Sometimes, there’s just no other way to stop a couple of “hero” types from charging into melee and putting your whole missile unit into melee mode other than to halt.

FRIENDLY FIRE
Missile units don't seem to suffer friendly fire from archers that are behind them but in the same unit. Fire from a different unit, however, can be deadly. Also, your cooperating melee units can suffer more deaths and wounds from your own cavalry than from chasing a fleeing enemy.

To get a missile unit to stop shooting, you must turn fire-at-will OFF, then hit HALT. This is true of foot and horse units. Even then, it will take a few seconds. Notice that you have to do something similar to get any archer unit to target one specific unit when other, more vulnerable or closer targets are in range. You have to have fire-at-will off, then target the unit you want. I don't believe that clicking "halt" then giving an attack order is necessary, but it doesn't hurt.

If you have two units firing at the same enemy and they get too close, it is quite possible — and logical — for your archers to hit each other.

By far, most friendly fire loses that I’ve experienced happen when masses of units keep firing on a few survivors after the battle’s already won. Be patient, and have a sense of proportion.

Also keep in mind that creating crossfire has another key advantage besides greatly enhance kill rates: Units firing from two different directions don’t often get in each other’s way.

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14. NOW THAT YOU KNOW OUR SECRETS: HOW TO FIGHT MISSILE CAVALRY
https://i101.photobucket.com/albums/...eral/sig20.jpg

Originally Posted by ScrapTower
For the people who play factions with no missile cavalry and face cavalry heavy armies in MP:

1) Trying to chase down and pin missile cavalry with heavy or even light cavalry is futile unless the player with the missile cavalry makes a mistake.

2) Get at least one unit of missiles for each missile cavalry you think you are going to face. (If you face an army of mainly missile cavalry, no less then 8)

3) Keep your army with your missiles. You must kill a lot of their missile cavalry before you can go on the offensive.

4) Let him come to you. Stand still, turn fire at will off and let his missile cavalry start to circle and shoot at you.

5) Turn on flaming arrows and begin to focus fire his HA. One or two large flaming volleys will really take his HA unit down to ineffective levels.

6) If your opponent complains that you are not attacking, explain to him that to counter an HA heavy army with no HA of your own, this is your only option and take no shame in it.

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(DT’s comments)

This is all excellent advice, but the last point deserves special mention.

Chasing a unit you can't catch -- particularly if it means leaving foot archers behind or moving your foot archers, which cannot fire on the move -- is playing the horse archer's game. Ignore taunts. The best comeback is to still be standing when the battle's over.

As a horse archer nut I can assure you that attacking is exactly what a horse archer jockey wants you to do. I'd go so far as to add that you should put your archers on "defend position" stance or turn skirmish off so they will keep firing.

Not all foot archers are weak skirmish units. They can't withstand a knight's charge, but they can effectively fight many weak-melee HA units, especially if spear or cavalry support is close by.

The only other thing I'd explicitly add is something already obvious to everybody, but we might as well say it: If you can deploy on high ground or get to some before the HA can get to you, do so.

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I consider javelin units to be a good anti-missile cavalry option. Units auto-skirmish out of melee range but not quite out of javelin range. A few volleys of javelins will devastate any cavalry unit.

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15. SOME DISCUSSION OF GUNPOWDER CAVALRY, INCLUDING ELEPHANTS, AND A WORD ABOUT MOUNTED CROSSBOWMEN

https://i101.photobucket.com/albums/.../cgunners2.jpg

First off, gunpowder cavalry have the same trouble in rain and bad weather as any gunpowder unit. They have the same adverse effect on enemy morale, too.
Elephants of all types move as far as regular cavalry on the strategy map, making them a nice little mobile siege train.

MOORISH CAMEL GUNNERS
This unit has drawn a lot of attention and some serious devotees. Rarely does such an expensive unit get such a high level of agreement that the cost is worth it.

The guns have excellent range: As long as a musketeers and half-again as much as any bow-armed cavalry. This requires some serious ammo conservation. It gets 20 shots, and will fire continuously if you leave fire at will on because something is almost always in range.

As for use of this unit, the best I can do is quote Mushashi:

Quote:

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My trick is actually to deploy half on one "wing" of my formation, and half on the other, and then send them to both enemy flanks, making it impossible for the enemy to turn to face one without setting themselves up to take fire from the rear. Then I march the rest of my formation to close range directly from the front. This gives me a three sided envelopment, and my camel gunners are in position to demoralize, devastate (Seriously, those muskets are EVIL) run down routers, and also if the enemy skirmishers attempt to pull back behind the front lines my camels can sweep in and annihilate them in melee, leaving the enemy with no ranged support, and even better, my gunners right on top of them at the rear, able to deliver volley fire and rear charges.

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That may sound like conventional missile cavalry stuff, but it's not. The very long range of the camel gunner makes this kind of three-pronged attack much easier for the attacker to do and harder for the defender to stop. Also, the very long range of the guns and their relatively flat trajectory create deadly crossfire.

REITERS (HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE)

This is a knight unit that can shoot, as I mentioned before. It is also the shortest-ranged missile cavalry unit, period, and one of the slowest. Reiter tactics are a sadly neglected topic, but a few general observations can be made.

A chase where reiters are the pursuers won’t last long. The fleeing unit will get powerful pistol volleys in the back. It’s either going to escape quickly or die.

Charging reiters put a volley into their target while charging, which has a nice disruptive and morale effect. Even target unit members that are not killed are pushed back.

Reiters may be slow by HA standards, but they are certainly fast enough to deal death to infantry units with missile fire alone. They are well protected against light missiles themselves. They are also the only missile cavalry unit that doesn’t have skirmish on as a default.

Reiters must be very wary of javelin cavalry, which appear to me to be this unit’s deadliest enemy. The reiters are not fast enough to get away and don’t fire fast enough to kill the jav-cav first. Another potential threat is the French Mounted Archer, which gets an anti-armor bonus.

ELEPHANTS
Elephants with arquebuses are very powerful missile units, perfectly able to wipe out an armored infantry unit and still have more than half its ammo left. It doesn't skirmish so using them as missile cavalry requires a little micro. They are perfectly capable of walking or running away from a chasing infantry unit and pelting it with fire the whole way. Not only will this kill most of the infantry unit, but knocked down infantry will have to catch up to the rest of their comrades, straggling them all over the place. Then the elephants can turn around, charge and stomp them before the unit reforms.

Now here’s the danger: Regular elephants that are not quickly committed to melee and stomping out enemies are vulnerable to the missile attacks that drive them mad. I’d say the general rule of thumb is: if your enemy doesn’t have enough missile units, use your elephants by getting them close enough to scare the enemy and cause those great morale effects, but use missile fire to keep any of your elephants from dieing in melee.

ARTILLERY ELEPHANTS
This "self-propelled artillery" must face what they are shooting at; They don't shoot on the move; They appear to have a minimum range, and they can't skirmish. They also aren't particularly accurate, but their shot does have a nice effect when they hit. It's immediately lethal to some while throwing others in the air. The thrown people can recover but unit cohesion is compromised.

With those limitations in mind, elephant artillery can be seriously deadly, particularly when a large number of units are in a constricted space such as a river crossing. Look for dense packs of enemy units and fire into it. Also, they are safer than regular elephants because you can deploy them away from immediate danger. Range is phenomenal: 350 spaces. This compares to 160 for a longbow.

If the enemy army has siege weapons, there's a little quirk worth remembering. You can't target the catapult or whatever directly with your elephant cannon, but you can target the crew. There is a good chance that one of your shots will hit the weapon, which will fall to pieces quite nicely if it’s a catapult. Trebuchets take 20 percent damage per hit.

Speaking of siege, elephant cannons can easily take down a castle wall with ammo to spare, and travel just as far on the strategy map as cavalry. They make a nice little mobile siege train if you can afford them.

ROCKET ELEPHANTS
I don’t have enough experience with this unit or against it to comment. I have encountered the beast, and it did seem more effective than regular elephants, but I have to stop there.

MOUNTED CROSSBOWMEN
The improvements of RTW catch up with the mounted crossbowman, making the unit much, much more effective than it was in MTW I. Unfortunately, it still has a long way to go.

The ability of this unit to fire on the move means that skirmishing is effective despite then agonizingly slow rate of fire. Also, the armor-piercing bonus of the crossbow is still in effect.

Mounted crossbowmen, or MXBs, a weird species of duck in a lot of ways. It has a slow rate of fire, but more ammo than any other missile cavalry unit except an elephant rocket unit, which fires off a lot of its ammo per volley. MXBs has armor-piercing ability, but isn’t better against armored targets than a regular archer with a higher base attack. It’s certainly no great shakes compared to javelins. It has a low cost compared to other missile cavalry — it's even cheaper to recruit than a Jinete — but requires an upper-tier building, the Marksman's Range.

This is a unit that kills slowly in its ranged attack. In my opinion, it’s an OK, fast medium cavalry unit with a ranged option that's best used against armored infantry common in mid-to-late European battle. It can cause casualties and morale penalties, then can charge in. My best guess on how to use these units is as an anti-archer unit. If some knight countercharge you, the MXBs can skirmish away and fire on the knights while doing it.

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Hey nice guide. I myself use missle cavalry quite alot so this guide really helps. i never even heard of that enfilade thing before so this should help me gain better kills. Oh and where the hell do you get rocket elephants? Are they really in the game?

Rocket elephants are a cheat unit. Give them a whirl with the create_unit cheat. Great for the total riot.

@ Doug, fine job as always. Excellent illustrations. I personally consider Mounted Xbows nonuseful as well. Its anti-armor bonus is more than offset by its terrible 5 missile attack.

I take some issue with saying that chasing HAs with heavy cav is utterly futile. You can bag em with multiple units and pin them against a corner or edge. If you have light cav with heavy cav backup, it helps even more to be proactive.

Furthermore, you shouldn't include Timurids in the faction list as they aren't playable with vanilla. If you still do, you should definitely add the Mongols as well.

Well done.

Thanks, supadodo. Glad you found something worth trying out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by katank

Rocket elephants are a cheat unit. Give them a whirl with the create_unit cheat. Great for the total riot.

@ Doug, fine job as always. Excellent illustrations. I personally consider Mounted Xbows nonuseful as well. Its anti-armor bonus is more than offset by its terrible 5 missile attack.

I take some issue with saying that chasing HAs with heavy cav is utterly futile. You can bag em with multiple units and pin them against a corner or edge. If you have light cav with heavy cav backup, it helps even more to be proactive.

Furthermore, you shouldn't include Timurids in the faction list as they aren't playable with vanilla. If you still do, you should definitely add the Mongols as well.

Well done.

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Thanks, katank, both for the compliments and for all your responses on the threads leading up to this one. I never had a question that you couldn't find the answer to.

Fantastic stuff. This should be moved to the guides section IMO.

My only suggestion would be that you put a link to your unit guide right at the beginning, as its hard to spot buried in all that text.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daveybaby

My only suggestion would be that you put a link to your unit guide right at the beginning, as its hard to spot buried in all that text.

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Will do, and thanks for the kind remarks.

There's nothing I can find about setting waypoints in either the manuel or the key-mapping screen in the game itself. I'll add instructions on "Shft+RClick" to the section on "going commando."

What a guide. Good stuff.

I hardly ever use missile cavalry, since I tend to have my boring setup of main infantry (swords/spears), missiles behind, and cavalry on the flanks. Occasionally some extra (missile) cavalry coming from afar to hit the enemy in the back. But I never play HAs as detailed as you.

Your guide will be useful :yes:

Thanks, Bijo. I hope it is useful to people who haven't used the type before.

Note that a whole lot of what's in this guide works just as well for infantry archers. I think it's easier to get enfilade, for instance, with HA because they are more mobile. However, that doesn't mean it's impossible or even all that difficult to do the same thing with foot units.

For instance, you might consider putting "squares" of foot archers at both ends of a line instead of spreading them evenly, then concentrating fire on enemy units in the middle of the line. This might work particularly well for long-range bowmen who are softening up the enemy for an attack. Or have melee units clear the way on your left so archers can move forward and get some flanking fire before the rest of the line moves forward. Those sorts of things may seem obvious to veteran infantry fighters, but things like that need to be discussed at a forum. That's what forums are for.

I'm somewhat surprized at the slow rate of fire of foot javelin troops. I think they might have some of the same "keeping formation" delays as handgunners when they are under missile fire, but I hope I'm wrong.

Is this an upgrade of the guide which just moved over to the guides forum?

Er, could you PM me the answer, please. I don't get to log on as often as I'd like, and I keep losing threads in here thanks to the rapid turnover.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Doug-Thompson

For instance, you might consider putting "squares" of foot archers at both ends of a line instead of spreading them evenly, then concentrating fire on enemy units in the middle of the line. This might work particularly well for long-range bowmen who are softening up the enemy for an attack. Or have melee units clear the way on your left so archers can move forward and get some flanking fire before the rest of the line moves forward.

---

You know, that is actually very obvious, but I never used my infantry archers like that. Maybe it's because the situation never really allowed me, due to my flanking cavalry I often use.

My routine is like: have the army set up melee infantry mainline, archers behind, cavalry flanks. Then inflict damage with missiles before mainline takes place. When mainline is there, move cavalry to flanks and lock them in, while archers still fire at what they can (with the risk of hitting my own men, but a minimal risk).

Now that I read your tip, you're suggesting to set up the army with the main infantry as mainline, archers on the flanks (and cavalry at the rear?). Then the mainline battle starts, after which my flank archers move forward to flank the mainline.
If I understand you perfectly, this would mean my archers would be very vulnerable to enemy cavalry still lurking to strike weak spots. Am I correct? If so, then the only remedy I see is to protect my archers with my cavalry who go in front of them. Then it's still the question if my cavalry survive the enemy's to continue to protect my archers, if the mainline is still going on.

@Bijo

I worded that badly. My thought was to still have the archers behind the main infantry melee line, but not have them spread evenly behind that line. Depending on the number of archers, the middle might have no archers at all.

All this is new to me. For all I know, such dense packs of archers could create unacceptable friendly fire casualties to the units in front if there's no slope to give the archers height. Also, there's range considerations. Archers firing diagonally will have longer ranges than archers firing straight. Still, it's worth a try. I'm sure such things were tried out again and again in previous Total War games, but this is a new one.

Hi, I'm new to the boards, but I just wanted to say that I'm very impressed with the quality of and the obvious effort put into this guide

-Rakosi

Thanks, Rakosi.

::two thumbs up::

I'd love to see more guides of this style put together. Really helps a lot of people out.

Doug, you deserve a medal. A tremendous amount of work here....in what is a tremendous guide. Well done!

........Orda

Thanks, Bongaroo, on behalf of all the people whose ideas I wrote down.

Orda, that's high praise. Thanks and thanks again. Many of the ideas expressed in this guide are yours.

Outstanding, Doug. :2thumbsup:

I'll have to find time to read it all soon.

edit:
I think I found a typo while I was skimming through:

Quote:

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France has an excellent mounted longbowman

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I'm pretty sure this should be 'crossbowman', but I'm not the expert. :)

No, he's right, France has Mounted Archers with extra-long arms to manipulate their longbows on horseback. They are based roughly on the first regular French military units in the early 15th century. These 'king's companies' consisted of gendarmes, light horsemen and mounted archers, with the archers dismounting to fight. These were disciplined, professional troops under the direct control of the king and uniformly organized and equipped.

In game terms, however, Gendarmes are worthless and hopelessly outclassed by regular knights (although France can produce super-Gendarmes which are awesome), while Mounted Archers have magically acquired horse archer skills. Strange.

Outstanding work :sweatdrop:

Cheers
OA

Thanks, OA. It was your idea, and I'm glad that your idea was carried out satisfactorily.

Frogbeastegg has requested that this guide and the Missile Cavalry Unit guide be consolidated into one comprehensive missile cavalry thread over in the guides section. I have no objection since I've learned how to use jumps and anchors, making a post of such length usable. I expect to be able to get to it some time no later than tomorrow, Jan. 7.

Upon re-reading, I'm not satisfied at all with the basic tactics section. It's a rehash of some points already made in the fundamentals section. I'll re-write that, but try to make it short and punchy.

Doug:

Very good work indeed. Covers almost everything I can think off.

I have only one thing to add. In the section on mounted Crossbowmen there should be one exception noted, especially important because of early availability: the Strzelcy unit (for Poland).

It is a mounted crossbowmen unit that is available at motte and bailey castle level, so right from the start. It also has a bit different stats than other MXB's - little higher recruiting cost, three armor upgrade levels, and better armor stats as those men have shields! A very nice unit indeed, IMO.

On an interesting note Poland gets their horse archer unit later than most other factions - at the Archery Range.

MarekBrutus;

Good points and thanks for them. The fact that the Strzelcy comes in the early era is noted in the Missle Cavalry unit guide in the guides section. However, I didn't know they were available at the motte and bailey level, which is extremely significant. I'd also missed the point about them having shields. I'll edit those things into the unit guide. Thanks again.

Hm looks like the MXB are well suited to do the taunting and light skirmishing for heavy factions like the HRE, at least in SP. Possibly in combination with the Reiter and a heavy JavCAv ? The one does the fast fatigue work while the other the hard combat job...

Cheers
OA