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hi just woundering why the javeliners have such low attack points as they won some victorys on there own not sure what battle but athens deverstated a spartan army with them and the macedons made up an army of just skrimies and a few horsemen I think to send at the greeks
can get qutoe if needed
The basic peasant miltia's armed with javelins suck. But the peltastai, which seems to be what your refering to are quite effective in game. They can decimate light infantry by the dozens and can stand their ground against heavy infanty. The thracian peltasts are simply amazing though, they will destroy almost any other medium infantry, and even some heavy infantry.Quote:
Originally Posted by king hannibal
I find them extremely effective -- even just levies with javelins. If possible, get flanking or rear shots -- this can totally brutalize even top notch infantry or calvalry.
In reality one effect of javelins was that you couldn't use a shield that had one stuck in it, at least not without great difficulty. It is a little hard to emulate in RTW, but I do believe javelins should make more damage than arrows.
Playing as Saba, which has mostly javelin users, I think that indeed they don't do a lot of damage. Example: Fighting the Seleucids (treacherous scum, they betrayed me while I was trying to help them against the monstrous Ptolemies), I had three units of King's elite throwing a rain of javellin against a phalanx and they killed 4-5 men.
maybe the ap attribute should be added to the javelins? :book:
That would change the situation. Slingers with AP projectiles sometimes do serious damage even to heavy phalangites.Quote:
Originally Posted by blank
At the moment I use archers to counter enemy missile units, slingers against enemy armoured units, and skirmishers... well they just kind of hang around. I play with general camera so it's not often that I have time to personally lead skirmishers to attack the enemy from behind, so...
Well, there's your problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vorian
Indeed, the phalanx is basically immune to all missiles from the front if formed with spears down.Quote:
Originally Posted by blacksnail
You have to get around the unshielded flank or the rear. Then you'll kill plenty, and crush their morale. As an added bonus they break and are effectively surronded by your troops who can finish off the whole unit with ease.
Very true, that. There was one battle where I had an Elite African Infantry unit lure a Klerouchigon Agema to chase it so that my Kretan archers could fire at their backs. I was pleasantly surprised at the sort of damage that was inflicted, very different from shooting at them from the front.Quote:
Originally Posted by QwertyMIDX
BUT archers and slingers are much more effective when flanking than skirmishers, because skirmishers have fewer javelins and shorter range. Why did armies have skirmishers to soften the enemy before a charge, if the javelins generally had no effect on the enemy?
Because something is better than nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thaatu
And you could always find a good use for cannon fodder... :grin:
Just use them as a target for slingers/archers or as "shield" against the enemy´s cav.
Poor chaps...~D
P.S. Dont do this with thracian skimishers (they rock!)....
Basic skirmishers have less training than slingers and archers, both of which need a lot of experience to be effective in battle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thaatu
The second one is usually the effect at the moment, except against levy infantry.Quote:
Originally Posted by k_raso
I try not to be evil.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bavarian Barbarian
Fair enough, though it doesn't resonate that well in game (understandably).Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoffrey S
I'm just questioning the tactic of micromanaging your skirmishers to flank the battleline and throwing their javelins at the enemies' back. It's an RTW engine... I wouldn't say exploit, but my vocabulary is limited.
I use my skirmishers to "soften" the enemy battleline, but because 500 javelins only kill about one or two of their targets, it's nothing more than a waste of time. But I still want to keep the historical army composition intact, at least I try...
I think that soldiers get wounded anyway,even if nobody dies.So it is better to fight with injured men then with fresh and healthy ones
I concur that javelins are not effective enough. But on the other hand an increase in javelin efffectiveness would change the whole balance of EB.
Increase Javelin power, but decrease range slightly and make cavalry hurt them more perhaps? I've always thought that a big pointy stick (javelin) should do more damage than a smaller pointy stick (arrow).... but of course i'm not taking the "propulsion" device into consideration hehe.
Javalins are nasty to lighter troops like the Gauls. If they were more effective light infantry would be chewed up and spat out before the fight starts.
That's true. A roman army with legionaries and Velites can easily kill 15-20% of the barbarians before they even get to close combat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sdragon