Chinese sucesfully test anti-satellite.

In a totally unrealted story. Toilets in the strategic planning wing of the pentagon are mysteriously clogged by bricks. :laugh4:

Here's the story.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- China last week successfully used a missile to destroy an orbiting satellite, U.S. government officials told CNN on Thursday, in a test that could undermine relations with the West and pose a threat to satellites important to the U.S. military.

According to a spokesman for the National Security Council, the ground-based, medium-range ballistic missile knocked an old Chinese weather satellite from its orbit about 537 miles above Earth. The missile carried a "kill vehicle" and destroyed the satellite by ramming it.

The test took place on January 11. (Watch why the U.S. has protested the missile strike )

Aviation Week and Space Technology first reported the test: "Details emerging from space sources indicate that the Chinese Feng Yun 1C (FY-1C) polar orbit weather satellite launched in 1999 was attacked by an asat (anti-satellite) system launched from or near the Xichang Space Center."

A U.S. official, who would not agree to be identified, said the event was the first successful test of the missile after three failures.

The official said that U.S. "space tracking sensors" confirmed that the satellite is no longer in orbit and that the collision produced "hundreds of pieces of debris," that also are being tracked.

The United States logged a formal diplomatic protest.

"We are aware of it and we are concerned, and we made it known," said White House spokesman Tony Snow.

Several U.S. allies, including Canada and Australia, have also registered protests, and the Japanese government said it was worrisome.

"Naturally, we are concerned about it from the viewpoint of security as well as peaceful use of space," said Yashuhisa Shiozaki, chief cabinet secretary. He said Japan has asked the Chinese government for an explanation.

Under a space policy authorized by President Bush in August, the United States asserts a right to "freedom of action in space" and says it will "deter others from either impeding those rights or developing capabilities intended to do so."

The policy includes the right to "deny, if necessary, adversaries the use of space capabilities hostile to U.S. national interests."

Low Earth-orbit satellites have become indispensable for U.S. military communications, GPS navigation for smart bombs and troops, and for real-time surveillance. The Chinese test highlights the satellites' vulnerability.

"If we, for instance, got into a conflict over Taiwan, one of the first things they'd probably do would be to shoot down all of our lower Earth-orbit spy satellites, putting out our eyes," said John Pike of globalsecurity.org, a Web site that compiles information on worldwide security issues.

"The thing that is surprising and disturbing is that [the Chinese] have chosen this moment to demonstrate a military capability that can only be aimed at the United States," he said.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/space/0...ile/index.html

Now this makes dealing with China much more interesting. They have the weapons to blind the US militaries eyes. And makes those nifty orbiting weapon platforms a much less secure investment don't you think. Still funny how the US cries fowl when it's military power is obviously threatened.

And? What's America going to do about it? An ASAT (anti-satellite missile) is very cheap, and can be delivered using an old MiG as a firing platform. No real stopping of that, just whining.

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Originally Posted by DemonArchangel

And? What's America going to do about it? An ASAT (anti-satellite missile) is very cheap, and can be delivered using an old MiG as a firing platform. No real stopping of that, just whining.

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Pretty much. It doubt it matters anyway, if we get into a situation where the Chinese are knocking out our satalities orbiting earth, I believe we will have bigger problems to worry about.

And you can always return the favour.

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Originally Posted by Watchman

And you can always return the favour.

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Indeed, sending a missile above the atmosphere to nail a satelite is nothing new. Not suprising the Chinese have decided to try and make a big deal out of this though. Problem being they would have a hard time doing that when the country this is aimed to harm has full first strike capabilties over them..:oops:

Dealing with China wont change because of this. Most militarys throughout the world have this capability. But I doubt the world would enjoy someone blowing up a satelite with a nuclear material inside above their country.

There you have it, we're going to lose the space race and be subjects of China's space policy. But at least we almost banned gay marriage!!!!!!!
Hey I could use this to bash the last Republican Congress and our President for sitting around with their thumbs up their butts while an underfunded NASA fries its own astronauts and reschedules each flight 40 times because they are cruising in ships as old as i am, but I won't, cuz they sent me that check for 50 dollars that one year.

China has a distinct advantage on getting people into space because they can fit 348 people into a ship the size of a coast guard cutter. Hey! Good thing Mexico doens't have a space program!!!!

The real truth about why we must take space first

http://www.heavensgate.com/

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Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump

Hey I could use this to bash the last Republican Congress and our President for sitting around with their thumbs up their butts ...

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HEY! at least it was their own thumbs up their butts and not someone else´s....:smash:

now THAT would be totally unnaceptable!! :laugh4:


had to make that joke.....I´ll shut up now....:book:

Space isn't the perview of the USA. Not surprising that they threw their toys out of the pram when others show that US domination isn't something they're doing nothing about.

~:smoking:

Hmm, it's not only the US militaries' spying capabilities that are in danger, it's also GPS guided bombs, GPS navigation, satellite communication and of course worldwide satellite TV as well as geographical analysing and weather satellites. Not to mention all the future satellite-based technology the US are developing. Now the only question is why are the US upset? There was no harm done to them or does cluttering their sensor screens with debris count as such?

For chrissakes, they lodged a formal protest. Most countries of the world lodge formal protests all the time over practically nothing at all. All the US said was that they're not happy. Well, they aren't happy, are they? It's not as if China herself is above whining when she doesn't get her way.

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Originally Posted by Del Arroyo

For chrissakes, they lodged a formal protest. Most countries of the world lodge formal protests all the time over practically nothing at all.

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Ah, well, never handed one in myself so I didn't know how serious that is meant to be.~;)

I'm also positive that right now the United States is working on a way to counter that threat their satalites.

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There was no harm done to them or does cluttering their sensor screens with debris count as such?

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Well, now that you mention it, there is an even increasing problem with debris in space. A collision at orbital speeds even with say, a smallish bolt, could do some damage.

I imagine if China dare touch our TV broadcasting satellites the american population will erupt in rage and kill every person in china until there is noone left. Yes, we love our tv that much.

Destroying space satellites with missles is so 1980ish. As in the US and Soviets been there done that. Both agreed to stop because of all the unwanted space junk created that could damage or destroy everyones space toys.But hey, if the perceived notion that the US is in grave danger gives one a woody, who would want to deny one the fantasy.

holybandit, i fear that you are wrong for there is over four chinese person in china for every american and even more if you count all of those mexicans and other people that immigrated and aren't true americans. What the americans need to do is make an alliance with india and its 1 billion pop, then the odds will be even

The American populaton will either hate being in a war without satellite tele or love it.
Broadcasters-Hate
Radio-What, a new audience!
Athletic Directors-Yippee, our children will be able to work off that belly fat eating potato chips on the couch watching Spongebob.
Men-WHAT! NO FOOTBALL! I'm Calling my Congressman!

Woo, I wish I randomly had a company that could start making the anti-anti-satellite.

I know that I would be upset if my satellites' safety could be threatened easily.

Wait... I live in Madison --> I live in Wisconsin --> I live in the U.S. --> I live in the world; satellites are important for me. Damn.:embarassed:

"Hey china, we actually think communism isn't too bad... funny joke we've been playing, huh?"

*See amusing images threat*

Anti-Anti-Satellite Missile?
Or the Anti-Missile?
What about a OMGLazer?

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Originally Posted by Xdeathfire

holybandit, i fear that you are wrong for there is over four chinese person in china for every american and even more if you count all of those mexicans and other people that immigrated and aren't true americans. What the americans need to do is make an alliance with india and its 1 billion pop, then the odds will be even

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:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

I thought that was a typically european mistake, but oh well....
Mexicans are not true Americans?
Ever heard about the difference between countries and continents and their names etc?
At least you got it right in your profile. ~;)

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Originally Posted by Xdeathfire

holybandit, i fear that you are wrong for there is over four chinese person in china for every american and even more if you count all of those mexicans and other people that immigrated and aren't true americans. What the americans need to do is make an alliance with india and its 1 billion pop, then the odds will be even

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You obviosly do not understand the pure hatred that the couch patatos would have if the chinese knocked out television. Nah, im just kidding. I once heard a good comedian say this though "The chinese could canoe over here and put up a good fight" pretty funny guy..

Hasnt the USA had this tech for like 20 years? teh old.

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Hasnt the USA had this tech for like 20 years?

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More like 25 years, but as far as i know they stopped the programm in 1985.

The funny thing is that the White House is complaining but for themselves claim to have the right of "freedom of action in space".

They could just say "Yes, we are worried about China´s capability to destroy our
spy satellites, which we ...err...dont have."

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Originally Posted by Bavarian Barbarian

They could just say "Yes, we are worried about China´s capability to destroy our
spy satellites, which we ...err...dont have."

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Those would include the GPS satelites. People the world over use those, alot of shiping relies on them. Don't think China would ever be able to shoot one of those down without diging itself a big hole.

But again there's a reason the USSR/USA stoped building anti satelite missiles, it's MAD.

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Originally Posted by BigTex

Those would include the GPS satelites. People the world over use those, alot of shiping relies on them. Don't think China would ever be able to shoot one of those down without diging itself a big hole.

But again there's a reason the USSR/USA stoped building anti satelite missiles, it's MAD.

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It might be a message to the US to stop even thinking of militarising space, as the orbital platforms will be shot down more cheaply than they originally cost. Sure, Chinese satellites will be damaged or rendered useless by the debris, but they have less to lose.

A comparable situation might be the Battle of Guandu, where Cao Cao faced a much larger and better supplied enemy force. Cao Cao burnt his enemy's camp, which left them both short on supplies, but the enemy had more mouths to feed. If China can threaten to make the orbit around the Earth unusable, whoever has more satellites up there has more to lose.

The sensible solution, as ever, is to talk.

Well, China is said to have succesfully blinded a US recon satellite via laser. This and the further developement of their Jian - 10 (a "budget" fighter, looks like a mix of F-16 and Eurofighter) should certainly worry the gov of Taiwan.

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

It might be a message to the US to stop even thinking of militarising space, as the orbital platforms will be shot down more cheaply than they originally cost. Sure, Chinese satellites will be damaged or rendered useless by the debris, but they have less to lose.

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This wont slow down plans to have satelite mounted weapons platforms in space. The anti-satelite missiles have been in existance for over 25 years. They have been planned for. If anything this will help urge us to develop our missile shield technologies.

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PannonianA comparable situation might be the Battle of Guandu, where Cao Cao faced a much larger and better supplied enemy force. Cao Cao burnt his enemy's camp, which left them both short on supplies, but the enemy had more mouths to feed. If China can threaten to make the orbit around the Earth unusable, whoever has more satellites up there has more to lose.

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War with China would involve stagnant defensive battles through mountainous terian in India. Through the jungles of Korea. That scenario will probably never occur. War with China will be won over the sky's and in the fields of their farms. Once Air superiority is gained nothing's getting off the ground.

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Originally Posted by BigTex

This wont slow down plans to have satelite mounted weapons platforms in space. The anti-satelite missiles have been in existance for over 25 years. They have been planned for. If anything this will help urge us to develop our missile shield technologies.

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Are they effective?

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Originally Posted by BigTex

War with China would involve stagnant defensive battles through mountainous terian in India. Through the jungles of Korea. That scenario will probably never occur. War with China will be won over the sky's and in the fields of their farms. Once Air superiority is gained nothing's getting off the ground.

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Alliance with Russia? The Russians have already stated their defence policy, which is that, however many of their nukes have rusted to unuseability, enough of them remain to make a mess of America. The Chinese have nukes of their own, enough to effectively end the civilisations of American allies in the region. If they make a good enough alliance with Russia, it will mean they're covered by MAD as well. And if anything in the last few years have taught us, it's that they're rather good at diplomacy, especially with non-liberal democracies.

Why not back off a bit, wind down the arms race, and talk? It'll be safer, and cheaper. It's not as if the neocon fixation on arms has achieved anything positive.

China faces some interesting options.
They're western flank is secured and halted by the Gobi desert and the logistical problems associated with that. To the north is Russian Siberia, which is just as bad as the Gobi desert. There aren't any strategic options, aside from a thrust across the Bering Straits, even if they could. To the south is the Himalayan Mountains and the Indochina jungles. To the west is the Pacific Ocean. As such, the Chinese (if they do declare war) are going to be looking for more resources to keep their population supplied and avoid internal civil war.
If all options save for military expansion were exhausted, then the Chinese are going for the food sources that are required for life. Thats going to be the rice paddies of Indochina, and the land of India.
The Vietnamese are going to put up a stiff fight, and with American/Indian backing across the board, the Vietnamese will be able to pull some serious damage on the advancing Chinese columns. The Himalayan mountains will slow any and every operation (Yeti's, duh!), which may have been the reasoning behind the train line from Beijing to wherever in Tibet.
If its economic, then they will strike the nearest capitalist neighbor, Japan. South Korea will be hit by the NK troops with Chinese support. Taiwan will have to be a shield, absorbing enough damage so that American support can arrive. The U.S. will have to be able to work without satellit support, something that I hope the U.S. Navy is very aware of.
Australia will no doubt lend some aid, along with most of Western Europe.

The key problem is Chinese aid to Latin America, Africa, and other under-developed areas. Chinese investments have boosted local economies, and made it into something like Reaganonomics, where countries are tied to China by their financial interests.

I think that the U.S. could use space shuttles to pummel China with HE or damaging warheads. The Cao Cao analogy is very nice, because if worse came to worse, the U.S. could nuke the rice paddies and food sources in China, destroying the agriculture of the nation and forcing the peasantry either to revolt against the war or starve.