Journalist slain in Turkey

Well, well, this what happens to those who try to portray the Armenian genocide. Shot 4 times, and the masses are furious. :thumbsdown:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe...ink/index.html

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ISTANBUL, Turkey (CNN) -- A prominent Turkish-Armenian journalist who spoke out against the killings of Armenians by the Ottoman Empire early last century was shot to death Friday.

Hrant Dink, 53, editor of the Armenian-Turkish language weekly Agos newspaper, was shot dead in front of the Istanbul publication as he was leaving.

The killing prompted swift denunciation by Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who said the attack was a "shock" and an "insult" to the Turkish nation and a "dark day" -- not only for Dink's family but for all of Turkey as well.

"The dark hands that killed him will be found and punished," Erdogan said, in televised remarks.

Authorities are looking into a lead that he was shot four times by a young man who appeared to be 18 or 19 years old.

Described as a "well-known commentator on Armenian affairs," Dink has faced a number of cases in connection with "insulting" the Turkish state for his writings.

"Some of the trial hearings have been marred by violent scenes inside and outside the courtrooms, instigated by nationalist activists calling for Dink to be punished," said a profile on the Web site of Pen American Center -- the writers' group that promotes free expression.

Agos, an Armenian-Turkish language weekly, was established in 1996.

Andrew Finkel, a journalist in Turkey and a friend of Dink's, emphasized that the killing was "a tragedy" for a country attempting to "come to terms with its past."

Finkel said resentment toward Dink existed among ultranationalist Turks, and said the same people who staged "ugly scenes" at his trials are the same people who staged rallies directed at Orhan Pamuk, the Nobel Prize-winning Turkish writer who faced charges of insulting Turkishness as well.

He described Dink as a "bright" and brash" man who was a "well-known figure in Istanbul" and an advocate for Turkey's small Armenian community -- a once-populous group now numbering around 60,000 or 70,000.

"If anything, he was a great Turkish patriot," Finkel told CNN in an interview.

Pen's profile said that in 2005, Dink "had been charged for an article published in Agos in which he discussed the impact on present day Armenian diaspora of the killings of hundreds of thousands of Armenians by the Ottoman army in 1915-17."

Hot-button issue
This is a hot-button issue in the region, Pen notes.

Armenians and other countries regard the killings of Armenians in the early 20th century as a a genocide, a claim rejected by the Turkish government, which says Armenians and Turks were killed in civil warfare.

Dink was one of the most prominent voices of Turkey's shrinking Armenian community.

A Turkish citizen of Armenian descent, he had received threats from nationalists, who viewed him as a traitor.

In an earlier interview with The Associated Press, Dink had cried as he talked about some of his fellow countrymen's hatred for him, saying he could not stay in a country where he was unwanted.

Joel Campagna, Mideast program coordinator for the Committee to Protect Journalists, said, "Like dozens of other Turkish journalists, Hrant Dink has faced political persecution because of his work. Now it appears he's paid the ultimate price for it."

Campagna said that Turkey "must ensure that this crime does not go unpunished like other cases in the past and that those responsible for his murder are brought to justice."

He said that over the last 15 years, 18 Turkish journalists have been killed -- making the country the eighth deadliest in the world for journalists in that period. He said that many of the deaths took place in the early 1990s "at the peak of the Kurdish separatist insurgency."

He said killings, other attacks against journalists that don't result in deaths, and the many cases of Turkish journalists facing criminal charges under "vague statutes" create a "chilling effect" among media workers.

Private NTV television said police were searching for the suspected murderer, believed to be a teenager wearing a white hat and a denim jacket, but the identity and motivation of the shooter were unknown, AP reported.

Dink's body could be seen covered with a white sheet in front of the newspaper's entrance. NTV said four empty shell casings were found on the ground and that he was killed by two bullets to the head.

Fehmi Koru, a columnist at the Yeni Safak newspaper, said the murder was aimed at destabilizing Turkey.

"His loss is the loss of Turkey," Koru said.

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sad :shame:

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Originally Posted by edyzmedieval

Well, well, this what happens to those who try to portray the Armenian genocide. Shot 4 times, and the masses are furious. :thumbsdown:

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Genocide? What genocide? There hasn't been one. :smash:

Also, there are no Kurds in Turkey. Only Turks. Of which some troublemakers pose problems by pretending to be Kurdish or by speaking Kurdish, a language which doesn't exist.


*So hoping for LEN to drop in here :beam: *

oh, damn, I thought it said journalist slain by turkey. Golly, journalists never get killed in barbaric countries. Gobble Gobble.

:shame:

I find it ironic that of all people, Erdogan has the nerve to say that this is an attack on the right of free expression. Gah.

First camels and now this.

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Finkel said resentment toward Dink existed among ultranationalist Turks

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Aha!

:grin:

Hmm in Poland we only breaks them knees.
Ahh those barbarians.

A sad time for us all. We are all shocked by his murder.

Oh Lefteyenine, cough it up, where were you at the time ~;)

He was here at the org, right fellas? LEN if the police asks, redirect them to us and will establish a solid alibi. 6 people claiming you were chatting the the chat room.

Or maybe he had a friend keep typing the messages when he was out (AHA!)

:twothumbsup:

Hrmpf, now I feel sorry for LEN. Maybe he hasn't been around, maybe he is avoiding this thread like the plague. Meh, he differs about Armenia with me, but he is a civilised man, certainly abhorred by the use of bullets as arguments.
I'd love a good argument with our very educated Turk about Armenia and genocide denial, but perhaps this thread is not the place.

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Originally Posted by luigi VI di Fatlington

Hrmpf, now I feel sorry for LEN. Maybe he hasn't been around, maybe he is avoiding this thread like the plague. Meh, he differs about Armenia with me, but he is a civilised man, certainly abhorred by the use of bullets as arguments.
I'd love a good argument with our very educated Turk about Armenia and genocide denial, but perhaps this thread is not the place.

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:yes:

Quite.

If there are constructive points to be made about this news, I trust everyone will start making them.

If the thread continues as a baiting exercise directed at certain members, it'll close.

I would like to see some evidence refuting the genocide. Its been instilled in me since I was a child that the Turks sluaghtered old men women and children becuase of there race.

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becuase of there race.

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Racial considerations played absolutely no part in it. The Ottoman empire was an ally of the "central" powers in WW1, and thereby an enemy of Russia. The Armenians were and are mostly christian, and by some they were seen as a (potential) fifth collumn ready to chose side for the Russians. That's the background, I don't know if there was any particular, provocative incident that led to the genocide.

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Originally Posted by luigi VI di Fatlington

Hrmpf, now I feel sorry for LEN. Maybe he hasn't been around, maybe he is avoiding this thread like the plague. Meh, he differs about Armenia with me, but he is a civilised man, certainly abhorred by the use of bullets as arguments.
I'd love a good argument with our very educated Turk about Armenia and genocide denial, but perhaps this thread is not the place.

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The only shots I can see him near are espresso ones. I would love to have a good chat with him while drinking turkish coffee :coffeenews: , eating turkish delights (my primary source of carbs in first year uni) and sharing other foods from around the world.

Considering that Turkey exists from a revolution against the Ottoman Empire why is the Turkish state held accountable for what the Ottomans did?

Its like blaming the French Partisans in WWII for the atrocites meted out by the Gestapo...

if you ask me this was a political murder... if it was for me Turkey would never be admited in the European union after this...

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Originally Posted by Strike For The South

I would like to see some evidence refuting the genocide. Its been instilled in me since I was a child that the Turks sluaghtered old men women and children becuase of there race.

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While at the same time Ottoman citizens, men, women and children, were being raped, killed, crusified in Thrace. There was plenty going down on all sides back then :book:

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Originally Posted by iberus_generalis

if you ask me this was a political murder... if it was for me Turkey would never be admited in the European union after this...

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What do you mean by "political murder"? Politically motivated or planned and organized by government-related groups?

If you mean the former, should we also kick the Netherlands and Sweden out of the EU (and the latter does not seem to be the case here)?

Edit: nevermind, missed Ser's post saying the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Papewaio

The only shots I can see him near are espresso ones. I would love to have a good chat with him while drinking turkish coffee :coffeenews: , eating turkish delights (my primary source of carbs in first year uni) and sharing other foods from around the world.

Considering that Turkey exists from a revolution against the Ottoman Empire why is the Turkish state held accountable for what the Ottomans did?

Its like blaming the French Partisans in WWII for the atrocites meted out by the Gestapo...

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The Republic of Turkey is what they call in international law a "successor state", i.e. a country which "takes over some or all of the territory, assets, treaty obligations and rights from a previously well-established state (the predecessor state)" (see Successor State). As rights are also transferred from the predecessor state to the successor one, obligations are as well.
Compare to say, Germany. The Federal Republic of Germany is the successor state to Nazi Germany. Though one could argue that after the war the country had been cleansed of naziism, the new Germany was nevertheless held accountable for the atrocities committed by the Nazi regime, and therefore agreed to pay compensation (Wiedergutmachungsgeld) to the victims of Nazi crimes.

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If you mean the former, should we also kick the Netherlands and Sweden out of the EU

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And Britain , Ireland , Spain , Italy , Germany , France.......:yes:

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Originally Posted by Papewaio

Considering that Turkey exists from a revolution against the Ottoman Empire why is the Turkish state held accountable for what the Ottomans did?

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Because Turkey is a successor state indeed. Both within and outside of Turkey this is felt to be the case. Turks are proud of the Ottoman accomplishments too, aren't they?

Turkey isn't so much held accountable for the Armenian mass murder / genocide itself, that's ancient history by now. No, it is the present-day denial of it that rubs people completely the wrong way. Especially when combined with Turkeys poor record of treating their other minorities.

It is the same indignation people feel about Japan. According to their history, they're almost the victims of WWII, with their perennial commemorations of the 'worst crimes' committed in WWII, Hiroshima and Nagasaki. While blissfully ignoring their own barbarism from Korea to Indonesia, and still simply denying atrocities like comfort girls.

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Its like blaming the French Partisans in WWII for the atrocites meted out by the Gestapo...

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No need to point to the Gestapo - Vichy was ultimately of indiginous making. Something which public opinion gradually became to accept in the 70's and 80's, and which long overdue was finally acknowledged by the French state itself in 1995.

All countries have blemishes in their past. They differ in how they come to terms with it. Sometimes national pride goes wrong and leads to stubborn denial - Turkey, Japan. Sometimes influential pressure groups of those involved prevent dealing with it - Chile, Argentina. Sometimes the past is still an open, festering wound, with too many involved still alive, often from different sides, and it will be up to history to deal with it.
Nor are troublesome times simply a matter of right versus wrong, if only it was that simple.

And sometimes nations do acknowledge or come to terms with their past. Europe's colonial past is not denied. South Africa had a very healthy truth and reconciliation committee. The fire-bombings of Dresden are now generally considered a mistake by the British. There is an open discussion about the wisdom of the use of nuclear bombs on Japan in America.
Germany is the classic example of a nation rehabilitating itself trough acknowledgement. (West-) Germany acknowledged representing the continuity of the German state, and held itself accountable for nazi-crimes. This is how it rehabilitated itself. Not through the cheque-book, but through openness, accountability and acknowledgement.

Apparently they caught someone, a 17y old :shame:

And maybe someone tell that Armenians killed Turks into Thrace?

Todays Turkeys is successor of Ottoman Empire, like 5th French Republic is successor of Kingdom of France or III Polish Republic is successor of Kingdom of Poland.

It's very good excursion for Turks - "we are not Ottoman Empire". For me it's a bit funny. Turks can be pround of empire into XVIth century but they tell that the same empire into XIXth century wasn't their.
Strange :)

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Originally Posted by edyzmedieval

Well, well, this what happens to those who try to portray the Armenian genocide.

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Hrant Dink was not trying to portray the Armenian genocide. Quite to the contrary, he wanted the diaspora Armenians stop crying about the genocide and come to friendly terms with Turks.

In one of his articles he advised diaspora Armenians to get rid of the "poisonous Turkish blood" in them. What he meant was that they should get rid of their hatred towards the Turks. But some extreme nationalists in Turkey misunderstood what he said and he has been put into trial for "insulting the Turks". He has been found unguilty, but now an extremist killed him.

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Originally Posted by Komutan

Hrant Dink was not trying to portray the Armenian genocide. Quite to the contrary, he wanted the diaspora Armenians stop crying about the genocide and come to friendly terms with Turks.

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I don't think wanting a government to recognise the murder of millions amounts to 'crying'. I think it is a rational and just cause.

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Originally Posted by Komutan

Hrant Dink was not trying to portray the Armenian genocide. Quite to the contrary, he wanted the diaspora Armenians stop crying about the genocide and come to friendly terms with Turks.

In one of his articles he advised diaspora Armenians to get rid of the "poisonous Turkish blood" in them. What he meant was that they should get rid of their hatred towards the Turks. But some extreme nationalists in Turkey misunderstood what he said and he has been put into trial for "insulting the Turks". He has been found unguilty, but now an extremist killed him.

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I must admit I had never heard of Hrant Dink before his untimely death. Now, having read some of his important articles in translation, I can only agree that he was the smart, sensitive and humane person that you portray. I believe that after his conviction in 2005 for 'insulting the Turkish spirit' Dink wanted to leave the county -- not because he was being constantly threatened but because he was ashamed to have given the impression that he wanted to insult Turks.