Chivalric Faction Leader?

Has anyone had one, that actually had a good stat on Authority?

My strategy on this so far has been to do dreadful, dreadful things with anyone in line for the throne. Then once a Faction Leader dies, I go on a Assination, Spy, and Diplomatic rampage... usually I pump out extra agents as my faction leader gets old just so I'm prepared for this. I find that assinations in particular are great for upping a Leader's authority, and in a few turns, he's at the 8-10 range. I also make sure I fight some battles with him and get him into action to get the scarred line of traits.

The question I have though is this: is there any easy way to have a Chivalric Faction Leader with high authority? What are Chivlaric things you can do to increase his authority... and in this case, I guess you just don't use Assassins at all or very sparingly with a Chivalric general?

And finally, are there any benifits to having a Chivalric Faction Leader that I may be missing out on? (Better global rep, etc?)

Well you already touched on the better global reputation. Doing abominable things like exterminating cities or assassinating (and getting caught) will tank your reputation. In addition, a governor with a high enough chivalry due to ruling benevolently gets +3 authority, and "saint of battle" (the opposite to the tyrannical warlord one) gives +3 authority as well. The "tourney champion" line of traits maxes out with +2 authority (as well as +3 chivalry and +2 cavalry command). Otherwise, it's a toss-up. It's certainly EASIER to get the dread traits up high and gain authority that way. However, chivalry is better in the long run, and it's quite possible to up it so long as you're careful.

Personally, I like sending faction heirs and faction rulers off on crusades. It raises their overall stats quite well, and usually gives them a couple points towards the benevolent leader line of traits as well, which max out at saintly leader (+5 chiv +3 authority). If you really want to milk the benevolent leader line, crusade off to your target (+1 point), take it post haste(+2), and then just occupy it (+1), build a small church there quickly (+1) then go home and let it rebel. Any other cities you want to siege and just occupy along the way add additional +1s for each city you do this with.

I go for high chivalry on my king/heir... And I generally pick a branch of the family to be my "enforcers", and pimp them with high dread, so that they can be my dread general (Every chivalrous leader needs a ruthless underling).

Hmmm... I think the StrategicChivalry and BattleChivalry line of traits are really hard to get quickly though. So, are StrategicDread and BattleDread for that matter.

So if you're in a situation where your leader takes over with like, 5 chivalry and 4 authority, you're going to be dealing with minor rebellions everywhere in your Kingdom for a long time -- it can take a while to put together a crusade/jihad and get your King on board, right?

Whereas, if your guy takes over with 5 dread and 4 authority, all it takes is a few turns of killing everyone in site with assassins and he'll jump up pretty high on authority and dread.

Is there no agent-based way to raise a Chivalric general's authority?

And then, with the Chivalric generals you all have described, do you just not use assassins at all, and let rival factions cruise into your lands with priests, etc?

StrategyChivalry is REALLY easy to get.

Just have your faction heir command your campaign armies, and release all prisoners after every battle. Easy as pie.

Releasing prisoners however is kinda bad though since you'll keep on fighting the same troops. Better off to ransom it since the comp rejects it alot of the time. That will only work well if you only release troops in order to gain chivalry

I always occupy cities and release prisoners, and dont use assasins, and I always get chivalrous people, and yeah my faction leader often has about 5 chiv and 5 authority.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xdeathfire

Releasing prisoners however is kinda bad though since you'll keep on fighting the same troops. Better off to ransom it since the comp rejects it alot of the time. That will only work well if you only release troops in order to gain chivalry

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It's no great worry. The AI never retrains (At least I've never seen it retrain) so it just means it sends depleted armies after you.

And if you play your cards right there aren't many men left for capturing at the end anyway ;)

IMO, Captor Chivalry is easiest to get. Ransom won't work all the time and I will be forced to execute the prisoners (should get another chance).

I got Battle Chivalry once when I won a fairly easy battle (I had 9 Knights unit vs full stack of peasants and militia). I couldn't chase down the routers because I was out numbered 2/1. As soon as the enemy unit run away, I had to redirect my unit to attack another target. In the end, I only kill nearly 300 (of over 1000 enemy troops) and captured about 50. I will try again to see if I can get Battle Chivalry again.

The thing is by the time you get to around turn 40, all you see is full stacks of militia armies, granted they aren't much of a challenge to any decent gamer, but they often mass rout incredibly easily once something important like a general dies so i am always left with about 1000 captured troops which is quite a lot

I never have more than a few hundred prisoners, no matter the enemy force comp. I just use lots of arrows. Even on fleeing troops ;)

Thats my problem i guess, i mostly have a cavalry dominant army and tend to ignore missles except for defending cities

I love missile troops. Doesn't matter whether I'm commanding an infantry or cavalry army, I'll either have a bunch of mounted missile troops or foot missile troops. Mounted missile troops are godly for killing lots of routers.

I go for a balanced mix and retreat missile troops when the enemy gets too close manually (skirmish makes em run too early)
Average prisoner count about 300-500 a battle.
Releasing those would give the AI a sizable army again (and yes they do retrain) so I generally ransom them as I know he#'ll refuse (or if he doesn't thats fine by me too)
Releasing only when its under 200, the florin margin is small or just if I am desperate to up my rep.

If your king is dreaded, chivalrous generals tend to become more disloyal, but the threshold for that to trigger is pretty high (something like 3 or more dread for the king and 5 or more chivalry for the general). Dreaded generals don't have this problem at all and are perfectly happy to serve chivalrous masters.

I coulda sworn the triggers in the character traits works both ways. The ContentGeneral thingy that is.
Can't check on it right now though.

I've looked for the Dread trigger and can't find it, so I think the Chivalry generals are the only ones who get disgruntled with their faction leader.

General loyalty check triggers:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

;------------------------------------------
Trigger loyalty_check_bad_odds_penalty
WhenToTest PostBattle

Condition IsGeneral
and not WonBattle
and not WasAttacker
and BattleSuccess >= average
and I_ConflictType Normal
and BattleOdds < 0.5

Affects DiscontentGeneral 1 Chance 100

;------------------------------------------
Trigger loyalty_check2_good_odds_bonus
WhenToTest PostBattle

Condition IsGeneral
and WonBattle
and I_ConflictType Normal
and BattleOdds >= 1.5

Affects ContentGeneral 1 Chance 100

;------------------------------------------
Trigger loyalty_check3
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition FactionExcommunicated
and not IsFactionLeader
and IsGeneral
and Attribute Piety > 5

Affects DiscontentGeneral 1 Chance 20

;------------------------------------------
Trigger loyalty_check5
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition EndedInSettlement
and not GovernorBuildingExists >= stone_wall
and not GovernorBuildingExists >= castle
and Attribute Command > 4
and DistanceCapital > 50

Affects DiscontentGeneral 1 Chance 10

;------------------------------------------
Trigger loyalty_check6
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition EndedInSettlement
and GovernorBuildingExists >= large_stone_wall
and Attribute Command < 6

Affects ContentGeneral 1 Chance 10

;------------------------------------------
Trigger loyalty_check7
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition EndedInSettlement
and GovernorBuildingExists >= fortress
and Attribute Command < 6

Affects ContentGeneral 1 Chance 10

;------------------------------------------
Trigger loyalty_check8
WhenToTest GeneralPrisonersRansomedCaptor

Condition RansomType execute
and NumCapturedSoldiers > 80
and Attribute Chivalry >= 4

Affects DiscontentGeneral 1 Chance 50

;------------------------------------------
Trigger loyalty_check8_extermination
WhenToTest ExterminatePopulation

Condition Attribute Chivalry >= 4

Affects DiscontentGeneral 1 Chance 50

;------------------------------------------
Trigger loyalty_check9
WhenToTest BrotherAdopted

Condition not IsFactionHeir

Affects DiscontentGeneral 1 Chance 50

;------------------------------------------
Trigger loyalty_check10_mutually_chivalrous
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition IsGeneral
and not IsFactionLeader
and Attribute Chivalry >= 3
and FactionLeaderAttribute Chivalry >= 3

Affects ContentGeneral 1 Chance 10

;------------------------------------------
Trigger loyalty_check11_mutually_chivalrous
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition IsGeneral
and not IsFactionLeader
and Attribute Chivalry >= 3
and FactionLeaderAttribute Chivalry <= -3

Affects DiscontentGeneral 1 Chance 10

check10 is the one for both leader and general being chivalrous, 3 points or more.
check11 is if the leader has dread 3 or more, and the general is chivalry 3 or more.

Additionally, the ContentGeneral and DiscontentGeneral traits appear in no other triggers in the file, so that's it ladies and germs. I'd have to agree that the dreaded generals in fact do not care who they are working for. This data leads to two conclusions:

1. If you intend any of your generals to ever be chivalrous, you should focus on making your royal family chivalrous to avoid the possibility of having discontent chivalrous generals (when your faction leader is dreaded).

2. Your front line generals should be dreadful or at least avoid becoming very chivalrous, so they retain the ability to execute prisoners and exterminate populations without becoming discontent.

#2 can be especially difficult if you go off crusading and then try to establish yourself in the holy land, as you may then wish to execute and exterminate as you expand (that distance to capital penalty can be killer), but be unable to do so with your now chivalry-flooded general. At that point I say either ship the general home (to rule a settlement with his awesome chivalry!) and bring in a dreadful guy to do your expanding, ship him home and just leave a garrison to hold and run the city, or else send everyone home and gift/trade it to somebody. The pope seems a popular choice in order to gain favor, but I'm sure some other tactics could be used.

Anyway, Hope that helps.

Prisoner treatment only becomes and issue with 80+ men, so below that, what you do to them is unimportant. Personally, I find so long as you plan for this eventuality and make sure to kill the units you don't want coming back (knights, elite infantry, etc.), it's easy to mop up 80+ light support units (light archers, militia, early spearmen) and just release them and gain the bonus.

If you want to release troops without having to fight them again, release troops that you have captured on capturing a city - so either those that you capture if the enemy sallies, or those that you capture when you assault. You get the chivalry bonus for releasing them, but they still disappear off the map (as the city, where they would disappear into, is now yours).

Yet another part of my evil goodness strategy. Like tempting heretics into allied lands and then taking them when they go rebel. Or co-opting the Pope into declaring war on one of my enemies.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Musashi

I go for high chivalry on my king/heir... And I generally pick a branch of the family to be my "enforcers", and pimp them with high dread, so that they can be my dread general (Every chivalrous leader needs a ruthless underling).

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I also tend to run the differant lines of the family with one with dread, one with chivalry. I figure that makes for nice family reunions!