Questions about ethnicities

I have noticed that Saka ethnicities include hellens ("yavana") and various kinds of hellenised locals. I was wondering if there is any historical evidence of hellenes going over to the Pahlava when conquered most of the Seleucid kingdom, and if so whether it would be plausible to have Pahlava generals with hellenic ethnicity?

In a similar vein, I recall reading that most of the population of Alexandria (the most famous one) was hellenic, and most of the rest were jews. Would it be historically plausible to have "hellenised Jew" as an ethnicity for the Ptolemids and possibly the Seleucids.

And finally, I saw it mentioned a while back that there is a plan to include ethnicities for the Romani. I was wondering which ones are considered suitable for them (true roman, provincial roman, italian, romanised hellen, romanised celt?). I would appreciate a listing of the ones that are being seriously considered.

:balloon2:

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Originally Posted by Kongeslask

I have noticed that Saka ethnicities include hellens ("yavana") and various kinds of hellenised locals. I was wondering if there is any historical evidence of hellenes going over to the Pahlava when conquered most of the Seleucid kingdom, and if so whether it would be plausible to have Pahlava generals with hellenic ethnicity?

In a similar vein, I recall reading that most of the population of Alexandria (the most famous one) was hellenic, and most of the rest were jews. Would it be historically plausible to have "hellenised Jew" as an ethnicity for the Ptolemids and possibly the Seleucids.

And finally, I saw it mentioned a while back that there is a plan to include ethnicities for the Romani. I was wondering which ones are considered suitable for them (true roman, provincial roman, italian, romanised hellen, romanised celt?). I would appreciate a listing of the ones that are being seriously considered.

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Bah. Everyone knows the Romans didn't have civilised society.

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I have noticed that Saka ethnicities include hellens ("yavana") and various kinds of hellenised locals. I was wondering if there is any historical evidence of hellenes going over to the Pahlava when conquered most of the Seleucid kingdom, and if so whether it would be plausible to have Pahlava generals with hellenic ethnicity?

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It certainly is. The Pahlava employed a number of Hellenic generals and had good relationships with many Hellenic communities, like that in Babylon.

Keep in mind that if you do bribe another faction's character, he keeps his ethnicity still. I just bribed a Ptolemaic Macedonian and he's now happily serving under his Sabaean overlords. But I guess you're talking about newly created (man of the hour or son in law) characters.

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Originally Posted by Teleklos Archelaou

Keep in mind that if you do bribe another faction's character, he keeps his ethnicity still. I just bribed a Ptolemaic Macedonian and he's now happily serving under his Sabaean overlords. But I guess you're talking about newly created (man of the hour or son in law) characters.

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Well, obviously.

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It certainly is. The Pahlava employed a number of Hellenic generals and had good relationships with many Hellenic communities, like that in Babylon.

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Surely you mean Seleucia?

Do bribed characters keep all the same bonuses (and disadvantages) as their ethnicity gave them in their native faction, even though they are now working for some foreign king?

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Surely you mean Seleucia?

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Both. Babylon maintaned a substantial population for centuries after its greatly exaggerated "destruction." The civil/religious administration under the Greeks and Hellenized Babylonians in both cities was very similar, and there are a number of extant letters exchanged between the Parthian King and a formal government institution of Greeks in Babylon. There's even speculation that the Pahlava occassionally utilized militias from "Babylonia" made up of Greeks and Hellenized locals.

I'd still like to know about roman ethnicities. Is there nothing that can be told?

Since rome was a cultural melting pot, I suspect you'll either end up with a little sample of everything, or it will be based mostly on class.

Some of the roman group guys have been working on it, but I don't know the current status. They are complex though, I know that.

Because of the time period, and the fact that you'll probably never have more than 30 Roman family members we creating eight Patrician and seven Plebian Tribes. Every family member will belong to a tribe and a gens within that tribe. The gens will also determine their name so that sons will inherit their father's gens and cognomon.

We want to keep it as realistic as we can but I'm not telling you anything else.

Ok now I cant wait to see that. :yes:

Sounds promising indeed.

Yeah, and its alot of research, so you guys had better appreciate it :sweatdrop: cheers

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Originally Posted by Teleklos Archelaou

Keep in mind that if you do bribe another faction's character, he keeps his ethnicity still. I just bribed a Ptolemaic Macedonian and he's now happily serving under his Sabaean overlords. But I guess you're talking about newly created (man of the hour or son in law) characters.

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Interestingly, in a recent Roman campaign I had a bribed Getic general become Consul...

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Originally Posted by Cheexsta

Interestingly, in a recent Roman campaign I had a bribed Getic general become Consul...

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I had that happen too, though it was a greek rebel general.

We should probably stop that from happening...at least until the very end of the mod's time frame.

Maybe, but it's still cool Q. :grin: My best Sabaean general is a native Egyptian I bribed from the Ptolemies. He's a crazed warmonger who won battle after battle against them at and near Petra and who just took Jerusalem from them too.

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Originally Posted by QwertyMIDX

We should probably stop that from happening...at least until the very end of the mod's time frame.

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Awww....but it's funny! Even better if it's a Carthie or a Gaul:yes:
But yeah...ethnicities is one of my favorite things about this mod. It just adds so much more flavor to your characters....I try to collect them all with whatever faction I'm playing!

Nooo, please dont do that! I´ve once bribed a carthie general (Hamilkar :evilgrin: ) to fight for me against Rome, it was so much fun,

Can your bribed ethnic generals have families? All the ones I had remained perpetual bachelors. Then again, I haven't bribed half as much as you guys have.

That would be awesome to play a Seleucid game with a family of Roman or Carthaginian generals.

Ethnicity is inherrited, so theoretically, yes.

I didn't mean stop them from being bribed or being awesome, I meant stop them from being consul...

I really don't know how a bribed general got to become Consul. The trait requires that the general be either Plebeian or a Patrician, and I don't see any way of a bribed general becoming either.

May he just meant he up the RTW faction leader? Could that happen?

No, my guy got the trait "Consul". I remember seeing it on the turnly report and thinking, "Who is that, and how did he get Consul?" So I clicked to show details and found it was the guy I bribed about 20 turns back.

Later, I'll try to see if I have an old saved game, after he got it and before he died and take a picture...

Ok, I figured this one out. Brigand family members (random guys that pop up) don't have ethnicities. So if you bribe a "slave" faction guy, he won't have an ethnicity and then at the end of the next turn he will be given the "Plebivs" trait, thus making him capable of getting Senatorial possitions.
https://img182.imageshack.us/img182/...a054wl2.th.jpg
The turn after I bribed this guy.

Maybe he could be given the trait ethnicity "NonRoman" when he is bribed, at the same time as "Outsider".

That should be sorted when we get the ethnicities working, as all bribed generals will flag as non-Roman.

MAA - I am soooo loving the Parthians on your map!

(Is that v.80 or one of the Internal Updates?)

It's .80, my longest EB game I've ever played.
I had to help the Parthians though, twice. I saved them once from Seleucia, then game them two territories. And later I gave them Alexandreia-Ariana, Prophthasia, and Karmana; hoping having a port would help them. When Saka took over Baktria, Parthia turned on both of them and took off.