Hoplite usage

Hi all,

I've been playing a campaign with the Greeks and have been disappointed with the performances of Classical Hoplites and Spartan Hoplites. Classical hoplites in particular seem to get ripped to pieces against most decent infantry.

So, I did some tests using custom battle using a unit of Spartan Hoplites against a unit of Polybian Principes - both unupgraded and difficulty medium. Every time, the spartans lost. I tried with guard mode on and off, varying the number of ranks, using attack and alt-attack - nothing I tried worked. I was amazed that they were so ineffective against a basic heavy infantry unit especially looking at their stats. Maybe it's something to do with a smaller unit size. Still, they don't seem worth their money and time investment.

They don't seem to have a role in the battlefield that can't be performed just as well by other troops. From my experience, Hoplitai Iphikratides work better for the main battle line and Thorakitai and Thureophoroi for the flanks.

So, I'm wondering if anyone has any tips on their usage and also how the EB team intended them to be used.

Thanks for any suggestions

I have dropt in all Campaign´s that i play the Phalanx and changed to more mobile Units...as Greek my typical stack has 6 Units Thorakitai and 7 Thureophoroi supported by 2 Units Slingers (Greek, sometimes Balear Merc´s) and 2 Units Cretan Archer´s (sometimes Merc, sometimes normally draft from Creta) + 2 Units of Thessaly Cavalry and General.

The only Phalanx i have ist 1 in Sparta (well let´s say as Royal Guard´s ;) )

Phalanx ist simply to immobile and only useful to hold a Bridge or Gate in a City.

Open field i normally attack other Phalanx Units with my Thorakitai and after they fixed my Thureophoroi attack from the side and Cavalry from back....as result you slain the phalanx´s without much loss at your side.

I noticed that the more classic hoplites suck. My classic mercenaries struggled against those 'out runner' hoplites, you know those guys who are supposed to fight peltests? It wouldn't have been so bad but the out runners have more men per unit. I also tested in a custom battle Spartans against Babylonian spear men, the Spartans won leaving a little less than 1/2 of their men dead. Strangely enough the Spartan Captain killed half of them himself. What a guy :)

These unit's haven't completely been balanced out yet. EB will need to revise it's medium Greek units; currently they are nearly all equal - with the ekdromoi being noticeably more powerful due to their sheer numbers.

I use the classical hoplites*and all the different variations of them* at every chance I can get them, work wonders for me and havn't failed me yet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios

These unit's haven't completely been balanced out yet. EB will need to revise it's medium Greek units; currently they are nearly all equal - with the ekdromoi being noticeably more powerful due to their sheer numbers.

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Oh I didn't realise that. I thought the Greeks were pretty settled. I had noticed the Ekdromoi Hoplitai were pretty effective though . It seems unit size has a huge effect on performance.

Are there any other factions that are due some balancing? I've heard the Parthians are having a big overhaul and Saba and Saka Rauka are still unfinished but haven't heard of any others.

Thanks for your help

TK and I have been noticing strange Classical Hoplite behavior (i.e. being weaker than their stats imply) and are trying to figure it out. Weird though.

As a side note,

In my Averni campaign the Massilian hoplites are a wonder. Not only the idea behind is fascinating and the realization (the skin) gorgeous... :balloon2: But they fight like hell, with their swords or with their pikes (Alt-attack since they're a kind of celtized hoplite having sword as a primary weapon).

In a battle my right flank of Celtic "heavy" swordsmen (no armour though) had routed, they were left alone against like 4-5 units of hastati, principes and rorari. Well they held, surrounded by this crowd, losing only a few men, like Spartans of old, until I routed the enemy left flank and could rescue them. They're probably the best pre-Polybian heavy infantry of the Gallic-Alpine area.

So maybe there is something with the primary weapon being a sword making them better? Is there not a hardcoded malus for spears against infantry?